Hands alive

[ed-swckf]

Actually we do agree you must have misundertood hwo i was coming across, all hands make use of the 2 way energy, but it is their expression (application that is different)

so its not an energy native of the lan sau, its an energy that can be used by different shapes for different results, what confused me is calling it lan sau energy when the shape was tan sau.

 

[brothershaw]

Going backwards-
I understand what you mean about using the structure of the fook sau but moving the shoulder or body (i dont remember which) to put you in the position to stop the hook, however go bong sau would be better considering fook sau is really stronger moving towards your center/inner gate where as go bong is designed for an attack to your outer gate.
Yes you should be flexible in your wing chun but the different positions are designed to be structurally strong in specific ways.

Unless you meant passing the hook and fooking it from the outside then doing doing a lan to trap or a fut sau to the throat or some other variation where the person hooked but you are now on their outside gate and so on in which case the fook makes more sense to ME,

This is not an attack but a discussion of ideas,

 

[bcbernam777]

Going backwards-
I understand what you mean about using the structure of the fook sau but moving the shoulder or body (i dont remember which) to put you in the position to stop the hook, however go bong sau would be better considering fook sau is really stronger moving towards your center/inner gate where as go bong is designed for an attack to your outer gate.
Yes you should be flexible in your wing chun but the different positions are designed to be structurally strong in specific ways.

Unless you meant passing the hook and fooking it from the outside then doing doing a lan to trap or a fut sau to the throat or some other variation where the person hooked but you are now on their outside gate and so on in which case the fook makes more sense to ME,

This is not an attack but a discussion of ideas,

The fook is a transition like all the techniques, however the purpose was not to use a fook because it was necessarally better but because if I used the fook in such a way, I knew the response that I would get from him as the fook was not the usual way, and I wanted to highlight the error of that way of thinking. Its like the story of a pesky restaurant owner who considered himself an expert in martial arts, who was bothering Wong Shun Leung with questions about "if I did this then what would you do, and if I did this what would you do" Wong man finally put his chopsticks down and said "I dont know what I would do why dont we go out side and see" at which point the restaurant owner excused himself.

the point is, this student through no fault of his own had been taught Wing Chun as a technique based art instead of a concept based art, and because of this was so focused on where the technique should be and shouldnt that there was no life in his hands, bare in mind that he had been studying for 6 years.

 

[brothershaw]

Hmmm yes and no.
The different hand positions are transitional, and wing chun isnt based on techniques. YES
You should know where the different hands are strong and weak, to me the liveness of the hands is being able to use them in spontaneous combos based on the moment which is what you are saying but
a fook sau or a tan sau isnt a technique of itself per se, so using the best tool for the particular job doenst necessarily make you not alive, but maybe more efficient. I cant speak for your friend.
I like to or used to like to try alot of different things but often found sometimes the more creative you get the harder or more impossible it can be to pull off.
However I still think the more I know the box the sooner I can step out of it.
Some people however like to live precisely by the rules, and do exactly what they are told no more no less.
So to some extent I do agree with you.

 

[bcbernam777]

Hmmm yes and no.
The different hand positions are transitional, and wing chun isnt based on techniques. YES
You should know where the different hands are strong and weak, to me the liveness of the hands is being able to use them in spontaneous combos based on the moment which is what you are saying but
a fook sau or a tan sau isnt a technique of itself per se, so using the best tool for the particular job doenst necessarily make you not alive, but maybe more efficient. I cant speak for your friend.
I like to or used to like to try alot of different things but often found sometimes the more creative you get the harder or more impossible it can be to pull off.
However I still think the more I know the box the sooner I can step out of it.
Some people however like to live precisely by the rules, and do exactly what they are told no more no less.
So to some extent I do agree with you.

I agree with you that you need to use the right tools for the right job, this is the essence of efficiency, which is the core of Wing Chun, but in saying this aliveness doesnt necassarally mean using a tool with a central controlling position e.g. fook Sau in an unusual place, (I was exagerating this for his benefit) but it is as simple as placing your tools where they will maximise your defensive position whilst promoting your offensive position, and can be as simple as slightly moving your Tan even an inch forward to gain this type of position, i think deadness of the hands happens because the Wing Chun practicioner fails to simply respond to the oponant, instead he has a "game plan" in his mind of what his next move is, this creates a mental freezing when the oponaant does something that is unexpected.

 

[ed-swckf]

I agree with you that you need to use the right tools for the right job, this is the essence of efficiency, which is the core of Wing Chun, but in saying this aliveness doesnt necassarally mean using a tool with a central controlling position e.g. fook Sau in an unusual place, (I was exagerating this for his benefit) but it is as simple as placing your tools where they will maximise your defensive position whilst promoting your offensive position, and can be as simple as slightly moving your Tan even an inch forward to gain this type of position, i think deadness of the hands happens because the Wing Chun practicioner fails to simply respond to the oponant, instead he has a "game plan" in his mind of what his next move is, this creates a mental freezing when the oponaant does something that is unexpected.

Now that i do agree with.