hand conditioning side effects

[Master Dan]

Assuming you only wanted to strike an opponent (not a brick, board or block), would you need to condition your hands to avoid injuring them (by accidentally hitting a skull or a jaw)? And if so, to what extent should the hands be conditioned?

(I don't mean you'd condition them by hitting a skull or a jaw -- I mean you might injure them by hitting a skull or jaw accidentally. Hope that's clear. Otherwise that'd be one bad-*** dojo. "Hold still, kid.")

Again teaching by two demensional means book computer is very limited. Theory is what it is the street is fluid changing savage. proper conditioning should help you to be able to take a blow especially in CMA as well as inflict if necessary.

Injury is possible no matter what conditioning. The condition should be such that you can strike hard enough to gain the desired effect with out permenant injury to your self but also I teach my students options or think of the end result of your actions? striking the nose while effecting results in lots of blood and blackend eyes for police and a jury to look at while winding them control grappling escape or even making them unconcious with out side effects is much better for your liabilty let alone. Every situation is different better yet to not be there avoid at all cost if you can't if its a total surprise bad planning on your part you will do what you practice not what someone tells you or read in a book.

The possibilty for you to hurt another person accidently is always a possiblity it is my first concern unles there is 3 or more.

When I travled and trained nation wide I would often go into random training facilities like the two guys on Dicovery channel getting the crap beat out of them to experience different styles and I do not remember the sate or style but mid to East coast and they would train with out shirts bare fist striking differnet parts of the body to condition taking the hit and they trained thier big toes to strike at a person's hip joint to dislocate very hard core.

Just keep in mind you build your body up not tear it down

 

[Xue Sheng]

I think this is a very clear post. In contrast, I haven't seen much clarity come from the recent posts that attempt to clarify positions, so it might be a good time to take a breath and discuss proper, safe methods of hand conditioning for those who wish to undertake it for their own reasons.

Personally, I know nothing about the subject that I haven't read in this forum. If I were to actually undertake the study of hand conditioning, i would seek out a sifu and meet his students, especially the older ones. But given all I have on my plate, it's a low priority, and I expect that it would be a long time before hand conditioning is the weakest link in my martial skillset, such as it is. :asian:

I am not qualified to tell someone how to train this. I have trained it under a sifu who was and it was not fists (knuckles) it was palm strikes. He did not train for fists, he did train for palm, knee, elbow, foot shoulder but not fist, fist strikes are not part of his CMA. I would like to add it was some of the most internally focused strike training I have had and it was from an art that is considered, even by those who train it, hardcore external and there is much more to this style than just hitting too.

I only trained palm because, to be honest, I could not get myself to hit a tree or a wall with my elbow or knee. Beyond that I will tell you one of the key things in this styles training of this is the sound you are looking for when you hit trees and walls. It is not just pounding on stuff as hard as you can.... that is a great way to break stuff you do not want to break... you are training to hit hard not break yourself.

My Taiji sifu sees no reason for this at all and he is traditionally trained, but then he is also a big fan of qinna. The person that I guess could be considered my shigung based on my current Xingyi sifu was very much into hitting trees and a lot of that with his forearms

 

[ride57]

Well,let me add something if I may. I started the Iron palm in 2005, with store bought jow. I now buy herbs from Dale or Plum Dragon Herbs and brew my own. Now, before I started, I had trigger finger (stenosing tenosynovitis) in 3 fingers of my right hand and 2 fingers of my left. It was difficult to work (scrub tech) as I would literally have to pry my fingers off of instruments to pass them to the Dr. Multiple steroid shots really didn't do anything.

Now, I only have one finger that will lock. I practice iron palm off and on. And I always use jow. I think the combo of the massaging and the jow got rid of the trigger finger. (or else the steroid injections took 3 years to work) So, did iron palm ruin my hands? I am gonna say no. Let me also say that I am NOT trying to get 1/2 inch knuckles to break boards.

I think that when people train to get big knuckles to enable fist breaks, this is where problems happen, There is so much scar tissue that it prevents the tendons from working properly, and prevents proper range of motion. I work in a OR, so I see what happens when people get multiple surgeries on knees, fingers etc. They have a hard time flexing the joint due to excessive scar tissue build up.

So, I will continue to practice my iron palm.

 

[rickster]

Iron Palm......know what happens to iron after a long period of time.....

 

[mograph]

Iron Palm......know what happens to iron after a long period of time.....

Under what conditions? Please be specific.:hmm:

 

[WC_lun]

Iron Palm......know what happens to iron after a long period of time.....

Depends entirely on if the iron is cared for properly...much like iron palm training.

 

[Xue Sheng]

 

[rickster]

Under what conditions? Please be specific.:hmm:

iron rusts

 

[oaktree]

What ever happen to pan qing Fu?
I remember seeing him on a lot of magazines a long time ago.

 

[mograph]

Depends entirely on if the iron is cared for properly...much like iron palm training.

Indeed. Regular use and oiling can keep iron machinery in good shape. It is abuse and neglect that can turn iron to rust.

 

[blindsage]

iron rusts

Sooooo...you're saying your hands will rust. Well that's just plain ridiculous, hands don't rust.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Sooooo...you're saying your hands will rust. Well that's just plain ridiculous, hands don't rust.

Maybe he is thinking of this Iron Fist

 

[pete]

It's better to burn out, Rust Never Sleeps...

 

[rickster]

Indeed. Regular use and oiling can keep iron machinery in good shape. It is abuse and neglect that can turn iron to rust.

Machinery constantly being pushed to the limits, wear out

 

[rickster]

Sooooo...you're saying your hands will rust. Well that's just plain ridiculous, hands don't rust.

metaphor

 

[Xue Sheng]

Machinery constantly being pushed to the limits, wear out

Which could be defined as "not training properly"

 

[Flying Crane]

Which could be defined as "not training properly"

definitely true.


I will say tho, proper training or not, I have no interest in having hands that look like Pan's.

 

[Xue Sheng]

definitely true.


I will say tho, proper training or not, I have no interest in having hands that look like Pan's.

Nor do I.

 

[rickster]

definitely true.


I will say tho, proper training or not, I have no interest in having hands that look like Pan's.

He had said his hands ached alot

I think he had taught Cynthia Rothrock

 

[Chris Parker]

I'm going to try this one more time:

Rickster, what actual experience do you have to make any comments on the validity, or even know what proper training would entail, including what the results would be? Because nothing you've posted shows the slightest piece of experience or knowledge here whatsoever. You just keep repeating your own lack of belief in hand conditioning training, even though you have no relevant experience to base that on. We've heard your stance on this, but you have yet to back it up with anything other than poorly constructed metaphors and ill-informed statements. So either provide something with some back up, or recognise that you're just not adding anything to this conversation, especially considering the forum it's in. Deal?