Hallmarks of a Good TKD School

[RobinTKD]

Manny picked up on a good one, a Clean training hall! Having trained in a few dirty ones in the past, training in a clean environment is very pleasurable!

 

[Markku P]

For me following is important:

-clean school.
-friendly people.
-lot of black belts ( this means the school is doing something right because people will stay there ).
-lot of beginners ( = good word of mouth ).
-clear etiquette.
-everyone show good manners and respect.


Yours,

Markku P.

 

[Buka]

No bad answers by anyone so far, including the answer by Harlan. I was curious though, how/if you might bend on anything you posted Harlen? For instance, if the student training is a BB, is that OK? I would expect an owner to be able to see from his office anything that goes on in the dojo. As to the "Free nunchaku," I would agree about a nuchaku, even if it is taught. But things like a free uniform for beginners might be OK, just to stay competitive if many other schools in the area are also doing it, or maybe signs explaining why the school's rates are lower as there are no "free" giveaways. Other than that, I like and agree with your examples.

One thing that turned my off from a school in my general area was its lack of politeness to visitors. I walked in to the school as I thought it might be sufficiently close to what I had studied (Hapkido), and wanted to check it out. A student paid much attention to who he was talking to, glancing at me from time to time, but not communicating in any way. I didn't expect to steal him away from the person he was talking to, but after 5-8 minutes, I thought it impolite not to acknowledge my presence and offer to help when he was done, or call another person to greet me. Some time later, my GM told me he went there also. He was treated the same way. Neither of us ever darkened their door again.

For schools that deal with children, look for proper dojo discipline. That has to come early. Green belted children walking around dragging their belts on the floor would make me leave.

There is an instructor in my general area who seems to enjoy working with kids. He does keep proper dojo discipline, but in a gentle, leading way. He also requires kids to keep up with their school work, to include seeing grades on papers, and report cards. He prefers to see parents at the dojo and keeps them informed. He is just good. The kids love him and wish to please him with their learning both in the dojo and at school.

EDIT: cdunn - you may have some of the best advice. I like that. But I think other things are important too, such as what the teacher/instructors demeanor is.

If I were to send my nephew to check out a school with someone I didn't know, I'd want him to think like this.

As for the techniques being realistic/good/practical/whatever, I'd take my chances.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

For me I just look at the quality of their students, it speaks volumes. Its very hard to run a bad school and have highly skilled, good mannered students. When I see a school with good quality black belts with good manner I know Id train there.

 

[Tez3]

Manny, before dismissing someone who had more than one blackbelt I would ask where they got them from. I know several people with more than one, my instructor has three. The first he gained before he joined the army the others he gained while serving. It's not always possible to train in the same style when you are posted in somewhere so if you want to continue in martial arts you take what's there, over the years that means you can earn, the same way as everyone else, more than one black belt.

 

[dancingalone]

I think Manny was making the distinction about master level dans, which I tend to agree with. I myself have BBs in multiple traditional styles, but the highest is yondan, and this is after decades of combined study in all of them. The guys in their thirties and forties who have a bunch of > 5th dans in obviously recently created styles seem a bit slippery to me. Too much marketing and 'credential' back-patting.

 

[wildcat91]

Agreed. But the original post seemed to infer that the parent would have no knowledge of good vs. lousy techniques. And to be fair, what exactly is a 'good' school? Some parents just want a safe place and a physical activity. Others are happily buying into the 'wholesome, family activity'. Others want their TKD with Christ. *shrug* Considering the number of happy parents that I've seen that love their schools, even though I know the school to be empty of technique, I only posted a baseline of what I think they should look for. I do NOT believe that every school should attempt to be the right school for every person. I'm actively for discouraging people actually.

Now, if we are talking about a GREAT school...

As a parent with little training, I may not be able to evaluate all the aspects of proper techniques but what I can see is the difference between the students who are listening and giving their best effort with the students that are going through the motions. As a parent it's always important to have at least a basline understanding of your childs interest whether it be Martial Arts, Baseball or Soccer. Even if you choose not participate directly in the activity you should be able to at least be able to guide them when they are praciticng at home.

 

[msmitht]

Does not matter about technique, competency of instruction and cost. Most parents will use word of mouth, proximity to home and their childs friends to determine where to take them. May not answer op but is truth.

 

[lifespantkd]

Many great suggestions have been offered in this thread. I would add looking for a strong emphasis on philosophy. Research shows that the non-physical benefits (i.e., behavioral and psycho-social factors) of martial arts training come with training in a traditional school that emphasizes the underlying philosophy of the art (see my blog article "Why Taekwondo?" at http://lifespantkd.blogspot.com/ for details on the research). For example, in Taekwondo, does each class include recitation of the student creed (courtesy, integrity, perseverance, self-control, indomitable spirit)? Are the students regularly asked what those tenets mean and how they can be applied in life? Are volunteer projects encouraged or required of students? Is the school itself involved in community service? Do rank advancement tests include essay requirements related to Taekwondo philosophy for some or all belt levels? Is information on the philosophy underlying the art included in the school's newsletter and educational materials (e.g., student handbook)? If "yes" can be answered to several of these questions, the school is likely to be a good place for students of all ages.

 

[mastercole]

This is very difficult for the non-martial artist to know, and almost the same level of difficulty for the novice.

I don't even know if I can sum it up but I will try.

The best school to me is found by a chance encounter. An instructor with excellent teaching abilities AND excellent knowledge of technique, by sheer chance meets an excellent student AND their motives match. In most situations, either the instructor or the student, or both do not meet this criteria, but some try to make it workout anyway, with a variety of outcomes.

Everything else is bells and whistles like easy to memorize curriculum, ice cream socials, lot's of patches and awards, sleep overs, etc., all made for the mass student body, made to make the "customer" happy. Most folks feel this is an excellent Taekwondo school.

It all depends on a students, or parents motive.

 

[Kinghercules]

A good sign of a school is how many senior black belts are taking class.
If a school just has a class full of kids or teenager.....its one of them bubble gum TKD schools.

NEVER ENROLL INTO AN ATA SCHOOL!!!! Those are the worst TKD schools of all time!!!

Then you have to ask yourself.....are you enrollin your child to just kill time or do you want them to learn how to defend themselves?
If you're lookin for a school just to waste time in then any 'ol bubble gum TKD school will do but if you want to or you want your child to learn how to fight then look for a school that doesnt use pads. Look for an instructor thats leading the class (as someone mentioned up top) or if their senior student is warming up the class they should come out and teach the class later.

 

[Cyriacus]

A good sign of a school is how many senior black belts are taking class.


If a school just has a class full of kids or teenager.....its one of them bubble gum TKD schools.

NEVER ENROLL INTO AN ATA SCHOOL!!!! Those are the worst TKD schools of all time!!!

Then you have to ask yourself.....are you enrollin your child to just kill time or do you want them to learn how to defend themselves?
If you're lookin for a school just to waste time in then any 'ol bubble gum TKD school will do but if you want to or you want your child to learn how to fight then look for a school that doesnt use pads. Look for an instructor thats leading the class (as someone mentioned up top) or if their senior student is warming up the class they should come out and teach the class later.

And what if its a McDojo that churns out belts to everyone, and winds up having a ton of Senior Black Belts?
Having a large number of Lower Ranks may well imply Higher Standards.

The last paragraph is agreeable.

 

[Kinghercules]

And what if its a McDojo that churns out belts to everyone, and winds up having a ton of Senior Black Belts?
Having a large number of Lower Ranks may well imply Higher Standards.

The last paragraph is agreeable.

Nah man think about it.
If you have a 3rd dan or up and you're 28 or 36 you're not gonna stay at a school where you're not learning sht and most of these schools dont have anything to teach a senior student.

For example....an older BB from Ki Whang Kim's dojo had got his 2nd dan back in the 80's. He then went to open up his own dojo along with another student who was a 5th dan but the 5th dan guy wasnt interested in teachin that much and decided to leave the school to the other guy. Now thru out the years other Korean masters had found out that he had trained under Ki Whang Kim and had promoted him up to 5th dan.....but the problem was he didnt expand his knowledge. So his senior BB didnt stay around because he didnt have anything to offer them beyond what he was taught. His BB were all teenagers. No adults.

And yeah I use to work at a few of them McDojo's LOL!
I seen these teenagers get their 2nd dan from this guy and they couldnt a proper side kick if you put a gun to their heads.
Sht! They didnt even know how to throw a back kick!!!!!!

 

[Cyriacus]

Nah man think about it.
If you have a 3rd dan or up and you're 28 or 36 you're not gonna stay at a school where you're not learning sht and most of these schools dont have anything to teach a senior student.

For example....an older BB from Ki Whang Kim's dojo had got his 2nd dan back in the 80's. He then went to open up his own dojo along with another student who was a 5th dan but the 5th dan guy wasnt interested in teachin that much and decided to leave the school to the other guy. Now thru out the years other Korean masters had found out that he had trained under Ki Whang Kim and had promoted him up to 5th dan.....but the problem was he didnt expand his knowledge. So his senior BB didnt stay around because he didnt have anything to offer them beyond what he was taught. His BB were all teenagers. No adults.

And yeah I use to work at a few of them McDojo's LOL!
I seen these teenagers get their 2nd dan from this guy and they couldnt a proper side kick if you put a gun to their heads.
Sht! They didnt even know how to throw a back kick!!!!!!

Age is indeed a Factor as regards to the age of the Black Belt.
I shall Concur for now

 

[Carol]

None of my experience has been with TKD, it has been more with striking and weapons arts. That being said...

I think its important that the instructor works with the class in a way that is age appropriate, whether the class is kids or adults.

Personally I ask lots of linage questions...not because I believe that Old-Timer X is better than Old-Timer Y, but because questions like "with whom did you study" and "how many promotions did you receive under them" have elicited some strange answers in my own experience. Black Belts are human, if the teachers training history is not picture-perfect, that is not necessarily a deal breaker for me. If an instructor tells me that he trained in the FMAs for 20 years but can't answer who his instructor was (yup, its happened) then that's a serious issue.

If I have personal concerns or challenges with regards to training, I don't want to get a smile, a nod, and a reassurance of "no problem", I want to hear how the instructor addressed those concerns in the past with other students. This has worked out really well for me because I get a chance to communicate where some of my weaknesses/challenges/interests are with the teacher -- and they get a chance to think about my concerns and respond -- before we even hit the mat for the first time.