H&K USP 9mm

[Grenadier]

Does the unjacketed lead build up over a short period of time on the polygonal barrel or is it something else?

Thanks

The rifling isn't too kind to unjacketed lead. I tried some unjacketed lead that worked fine in a Sig P220 (chambered in the 9 mm), but when fired through a HK USP, created quite a mess.

You can use unjacketed lead, but you really have to test things carefully.

The lead itself must be a good bit harder than ordinary lead bullets, since the softer lead bullets will generally make a big mess with polygonal rifling. The same holds true for a Glock barrel (which is also polygonally rifled). Some manufacturers, such as Oregon Trail, make a lead bullet that is harder than most others, and have a higher degree of lubricity, which makes them OK for polygonally rifled barrels.

On another note, the lead cannot be too hard, regardless of the type of rifling. Otherwise, the bullet cannot expand to sufficiently seal the bore, and hot gasses will erode the side of the bullet, resulting in leading.

Unless you reload your own, and are willing to spend a bit more to buy premium lead bullets, it's simply not a good idea to shoot lead through the HK. In all honesty, with the price of premium lead bullets and copper electroplated bulllets being so similar, I really don't even bother with unjacketed lead, unless I'm about to go to a range that forbids any kind of jacketed or plated bullet (because they use inferior backstops).

 

[arnisandyz]

Andy,

What you mention as the the possible draw back are why I like it. It seems to fit my hand real nice.

Rich..I didn't really say they were drawbacks, just that it felt a little large for my hands. if it fits you and you like it then its not a drawback! If you can get a NIB USP for $550 thats a heck of a deal. Oh and the gun is dead nuts accurate and a smooth shooter. I didn't put enough rounds through one to determine its reliability, but it never failed during the 100 or so rounds I shot it.

Glocks don't fit me well either. I had a 2nd gen 17 without the finger grooves. For me it was the grip angle. I could get used to it but going back and forth from my 1911s was too much of an adjustment. Another great gun that didn't fit me. Something that swayed me to the M&P is that it feels like a Glock that fits my hand.

If you look at IDPA SSP/ESP and IPSC Production division, the class is dominated by Glocks with a good showing of XDs and CZs. The M&P is the new kid on th block but I'm seeing more and more people switching over. Once in a while you'll see guys show up with a SIG or Beretta or HK but they are definately the minority. I'm guessing most competition shooters go for Glocks because of thier simplicity, easy to work on with DIY trigger jobs, etc, reliability, parts availability and low cost. I'm not saying the Sig or HK would not be competitive (I think Sig even fields a professional team) but typically your average shooter who doesn't have a sponsorship would be better served with a Glock type pistol for the above reasons. If something goes wrong with your Glock during a competition you can more than likely borrow parts from someone or keep enough parts on hand to fix any problem. The HK hasn't seen that kind of factory or aftermarket support in the shooting games. You may not have any intention of competing with the USP but I bring this up because competition shooters are REALLY hard on thier equipment. Some guys I know put well over 5000 rounds per month through thier guns in matches and practices. Competition shooters are competitive guys always looking for an advantage. The advantage in competition of the Glock, CZ, M&P and 1911 is high grip, low bore axis design that puts the recoil straight back into your hand which allows for a faster follow up shot. if you compare the Sig, XD or USP to the Glock you will see the boreline rides a little higher which makes the gun rotate more in the hand.

I'm not trying to sway you one way or another, but if you have a chance to try out a gun in competition before you buy one, certain dynamics are revealed that may not be obvious during indoor range slow fire.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

I really don't even bother with unjacketed lead, unless I'm about to go to a range that forbids any kind of jacketed or plated bullet (because they use inferior backstops).

Now that you mentioned that I did once look at joining a local gun club that mandated the use of unjacketed lead. As I only have Glocks I looked elsewhere. Just wasnt worth the hassle.

 

[Grenadier]

Now that you mentioned that I did once look at joining a local gun club that mandated the use of unjacketed lead. As I only have Glocks I looked elsewhere. Just wasnt worth the hassle.

One particular range simply mandated "lead only." I tried to point out that the Rainier Ballistics copper electroplated bullets were actually significantly softer than many people's hard-cast lead bullets, but this range owner refused to budge. I even proved it to him by sawing one bullet in half, and showing him that the core was pretty much pure, soft lead, and that the copper plating was very, very thin, and not a cause for concern, but it was his choice. He built the range with weak backstops, and didn't like being "lectured by some hotshot young punk who thought he knew everything about bullets when (the range owner) had been in the military for years."

It's a big time hassle, since using lead bullets results in burnt lube (the alox lube rings on the bullets), and you get a nasty smoke, even if you use the cleanest of powders.

In fact, after you're done with a session of shooting unjacketed lead, and blow your nose, you'll often times see blue gunk there, since the lube smoke does get trapped in your nostrils. Nasty, of course.

Still, some people do get around this problem by using aftermarket barrels that use conventional rifling. Basto, Jarvis, KKM, Briley, Olympic Arms, etc., all make barrels that can be swapped out for target shooting purposes, and will allow you to use softer alloys of lead in your Glock. They also make them for HK's.

While these barrels do give me a bit more accuracy, and that they do preserve my .40, 10 mm, and .45 ACP brass more, I wouldn't use them for defensive purposes. My factory Glock barrels have been ironclad in their reliability, and I won't change that.

 

[arnisandyz]

How about Molly-coated bullets like Precision? Can those be shot in Glocks/HKs and would the Lead only ranges consider them lead?

 

[Grenadier]

How about Molly-coated bullets like Precision? Can those be shot in Glocks/HKs and would the Lead only ranges consider them lead?

To the first question, the answer is "yes." I've fired many Precision "Black" bullets through my Glocks, in all calibers. No problems with leading in the factory barrels, although I do keep my loads conservative.

As to the second question, it depends on the range, and its owner. The range I was talking about in my previous post wouldn't allow it, since he wanted only unjacketed, plain lead. Not even those awful copper-washed bullets were allowed. Another such range, though, had no problem with electroplated or moly-coated bullets, and allowed you to shoot anything as long as it wasn't hard-jacketed.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

Hey Rich,

The H&K USPs are a great fit to my hand as well. The reason I don't have one is the SA/DA trigger. I've shot 4 of them and the DA action really bit. Rough and heavy. Oddly enough, the DAO didn't feel too bad.

Jeff

 

[Rich Parsons]

Thank you all for the good information.

 

[Grenadier]

Hey Rich,

The H&K USPs are a great fit to my hand as well. The reason I don't have one is the SA/DA trigger. I've shot 4 of them and the DA action really bit. Rough and heavy. Oddly enough, the DAO didn't feel too bad.

Jeff

The DAO actually is pretty good. At least it's a huge improvement over their awful VP70 DAO trigger (18-20 lb pull!).

 

[Rich Parsons]

Rich..I didn't really say they were drawbacks, just that it felt a little large for my hands. if it fits you and you like it then its not a drawback! If you can get a NIB USP for $550 thats a heck of a deal. Oh and the gun is dead nuts accurate and a smooth shooter. I didn't put enough rounds through one to determine its reliability, but it never failed during the 100 or so rounds I shot it.

Glocks don't fit me well either. I had a 2nd gen 17 without the finger grooves. For me it was the grip angle. I could get used to it but going back and forth from my 1911s was too much of an adjustment. Another great gun that didn't fit me. Something that swayed me to the M&P is that it feels like a Glock that fits my hand.

If you look at IDPA SSP/ESP and IPSC Production division, the class is dominated by Glocks with a good showing of XDs and CZs. The M&P is the new kid on th block but I'm seeing more and more people switching over. Once in a while you'll see guys show up with a SIG or Beretta or HK but they are definately the minority. I'm guessing most competition shooters go for Glocks because of thier simplicity, easy to work on with DIY trigger jobs, etc, reliability, parts availability and low cost. I'm not saying the Sig or HK would not be competitive (I think Sig even fields a professional team) but typically your average shooter who doesn't have a sponsorship would be better served with a Glock type pistol for the above reasons. If something goes wrong with your Glock during a competition you can more than likely borrow parts from someone or keep enough parts on hand to fix any problem. The HK hasn't seen that kind of factory or aftermarket support in the shooting games. You may not have any intention of competing with the USP but I bring this up because competition shooters are REALLY hard on thier equipment. Some guys I know put well over 5000 rounds per month through thier guns in matches and practices. Competition shooters are competitive guys always looking for an advantage. The advantage in competition of the Glock, CZ, M&P and 1911 is high grip, low bore axis design that puts the recoil straight back into your hand which allows for a faster follow up shot. if you compare the Sig, XD or USP to the Glock you will see the boreline rides a little higher which makes the gun rotate more in the hand.

I'm not trying to sway you one way or another, but if you have a chance to try out a gun in competition before you buy one, certain dynamics are revealed that may not be obvious during indoor range slow fire.

Thanks Andy