Gut feeling and instincts? is there a difference?

[still learning]

Hello, All my life, I trusted my gut feelings and instincts. Today I feel there is a difference. For me anyway.
1: Gut feeling usually applys as a positive thought, like go for it! this the one!
2: Instincts usually tell me about the surroundings, to be aware, something does not feel right? Leave now?

Have any one of you felt this way? May I have some of you thoughts on this? Mahalo and Aloha

 

[Skankatron Ltd]

Yes, i experience them differently. My understanding of gut feelings, or intuition, is that it has no grounding (no material grounding, anyway) in physical reality. It is spontaneous and just tells you things. Often times things of no particular use.
Instincts seem to come from some part of the mind. You see things and your subconscious (I think) processes it before you can think it out and gives you an instant reaction. An example could be profiling. As my high school psychology teacher put it, if you're in a dark back alley in new york and there are three guys with baseball bats, you're not going to think "oh golly! The yankees!".
Somethin like that. Ideally, as it applies to martial arts, you should be able to use both in a fight situation, but...... that's not necessarily easy. Especially because intuition is spontaneous. It's difficult to increase intuition because it involves a certain degree of separation... if that makes any sense. It's 4:15 am and i had a few glasses of vodka, so if i'm not making sense, call me out.

 

[Danjo]

To me a "gut feeling" is the same as "intuition." It is when the unconscious makes leaps ahead of your conscious mind and "looks around the corner" to tell you what's there. It's almost psychic in nature in terms of how it feels. It applies to a specific situation. An instinct, on the other hand, has more to do with permanent drives such as "self preservation" or the urge to reproduce. A baby wants to feed when he or she comes out of the womb. That's instinct. An infant wants to learn to walk at a certain point. That also is instinct. They are "hard wired" programming in our brains. In the martial arts, the "instinct for survival" is the one most commonly referred to and prompts us to learn to defend ourselves, seek shelter and food and the company of people that mutually agree on rules and laws to protect us and our property. Anyways, that's how I have understood these things.

 

[Lisa]

Gut feelings, IMHO, are learned things. They are alarms or postitive things that your brain/body tells you. Most people get "gut feelings" when walking into a dangerous situation. They know when something is not right and often, after the situation has been settled, will say that they "knew" something was wrong before the altercation/situation arose. I think we take our life experiences and subconsciously train ourselves to have certain perceptions of things. It becomes who we are and determines how we deal with situations and helps us dictate how we will make our decisions.

 

[Skankatron Ltd]

I donno, I guess i kinda see 'gut feelings' as more than just physical perceptions. Take, for example, people who have changed their flights because they had a 'gut experience' that something bad would happen. Later the plane would crash. Now there are no actual things that could be perceived when buying tickets (well, I'VE never seen a ticket that says the plane is scheduled to crash at such and such a time), so there is something else at play. Instincts are more primal. Like the thugs with baseball bats I mentioned, you might not necessarily be right (they COULD be the yankees...), but it's a safety mechanism built into our psyche. Off to bed!

 

[Sin]

its nothing more than your animal instenct coming out....

for example during the Tsunami there where hadly ny animal deaths....because they relie on there instincts to take care of them and to tell them whats going on, in other words they are more in tune with there primal instincts than we are....they knew there was danger coming so they high tailed.

Anywho, your "gut" instinct will keep you safe from the obvious dangers IE dark ally ways and being alone in the dark some where, but its not going to necessarly tell you when a punch is coming like a spider sense. Then that leads to an entire different topic of chi (or Ki) training

 

[Drac]

To me a "gut feeling" is the same as "intuition." It is when the unconscious makes leaps ahead of your conscious mind and "looks around the corner" to tell you what's there. It's almost psychic in nature in terms of how it feels. It applies to a specific situation.

That about says is all..

 

[KajuMom]

My understanding of gut feelings, or intuition, is that it has no grounding (no material grounding, anyway) in physical reality. It is spontaneous and just tells you things. Often times things of no particular use.

Actually, that which is often referred to as gut feelings or intuition may have some basis in physical reality. I read a fascinating article in the New Yorker magazine about research being done about people who extremely successful about being able to determine whether another person is lying. The reason? An observable human phenomenon called "micro expressions," in which a person's facial features move and change so minutely and quickly as to be imperceptible. But some people are able (possibly subconsciously) observe the micro expressions and make a determination about whether or not a person is being truthful. The article referred to government agencies trying to train people in this skill but it seemed to be an innate trait. Paul Ekman is one of the leading researchers in this area.

I think intuition is based on things like this: body language, expressions, and our own experience, which, when combined, provide information about a particular situation. Our intuition is our reaction to the information we're receiving about a situation.

Like another poster on this thread, I have learned to almost completely trust my intuition, especially when it comes to other people. Whenever I ignore my gut feelings about a person or situation, I usually end up regretting it.

 

[bart]

Hey There,

I just finished reading The Gift of Fear by Gavin DeBecker. It was recommended to me by a fellow eskrimador, Steve Van Harn. The book deals with intuition and how to use it constructively. It gives real examples of how intuition has saved lives. Myself, I believe highly in intuition, not paranoia, but informed intuition. I highly recommend it.

 

[Skankatron Ltd]

Well, I'm not saying that the minutely observeable things one might observe aren't important or that they're untrue or anything, I just think that more falls under instinct than intuition.
The airplane example! Surely everyone's heard of an experience like this? You can't read micro-pores or whatever on an airline ticket. Even if there was some physical thing related to it, it would probably just be discounted as superstition in any other case.

Anyway, I think I'll be quiet now since no one really seems to agree with me and they seem to want to stay that way. I've said everything I really need to, unless people have questions.

 

[masherdong]

Hmm, good question. I really cant answer that.

 

[47MartialMan]

Do humans really possess instincts?

 

[bart]

Do humans really possess instincts?

No kids eh?

 

[47MartialMan]

I have kids, just posting a question for any responses.

Psychologists will argue that question.

 

[Skankatron Ltd]

I think people have instincts, but they're so bent on being free from such a categorization that they think they are based on other things. Ok. I'm pretty sure what i just wrote doesn't mean a thing... oh well.

 

[47MartialMan]

Ok. I'm pretty sure what i just wrote doesn't mean a thing... oh well.

In my "book", its OK-been there......

 

[MA-Caver]

I found these quotes in a popular MA Magazine (Black Belt...March's '05 issue), I think probably relates to this discussion.
The author of the article quoted Master Po (the Blind one played by Keye Luke) from the TV series "Kung Fu" it goes something like this...

"Disicpline your body, Grasshopper, that you may find a greater power. Those who surrender themselves find inner strength. When the heart knows no danger, no danger exists. When the soul becomes the warrior, all fear felts as the snowflake upon your hand."
.........
Quai-chang Kane: "How does one find the strength within himself?"
Master Po: "By being one with all that is without himself. "
.........
Master Po: (continuing) "That prevails which refuses to know the power of the other. Where fear is, does not danger also live? And where fear is not, does not danger also die? Where the tiger and the man are two, he may die. Yet, where the tiger and the man are one, there is no fear. There is no danger. For what creature, one with nature, will attack itself?"

This can be taken in context with the topic at hand and it can relate to several other MA-related themes.
The way I see this in realtion to the topic: Being one with all things one must be "at one" with themselves. Doing this one becomes aware of all things which would alert them to danger. Expanding outward their chi/ki they would know/sense what direction the danger (a club from behind, etc.) is coming from. Relying on gut feelings can only get you so far, but if you're attuned to them on a regular basis (i.e. driving quickly in rush-hour traffic, running in a crowded airport to catch a plane without knocking into anyone, etc.) it becomes instinct.
Yes, we are all born with some form of survivial instinct, we'd have to be but we also must train it, train ourselves to be attuned to it, to listen to it. We'll call it gut feelings, intutition, hunches, best guess but if it is not honed like a blade it can be dull and thus like a dull blade can cause us great damage.
I believe that Miyamoto Mushashi wrote about this somewhere in the book of Five Rings.
To me "gut feelings" and "(human) instincts" are the same thing just one is more finely honed to a razor's edge than the other. This I feel should be ONE of the essences' of a Martial Artist, of any style. We talk about reading an opponent's telegraphing a kick or a punch. We should strive to be at the point where we already know what they would be doing before they do it. This is the fine line that seperates gut feelings and instinct. To be somewhere else before the blow is even struck, to strike before the opponent/attacker can move a muscle.
I recall reading that Bruce Lee was working on this,during the last few years of his life, honing his own instinct. Being able to read a person well enough to know they're going to strike so he strikes them first and finishes the fight before it even begins. Instead of reading the body set and the telegraphing signals and responding quicker than they would. This is still very servicable but I believe Lee was trying to go above and beyond that (in priviate study/practice) before he died. Read about it somewhere...
My own personal experience with the two (that are actually one) has saved me several times in combative and non-combative situations. Combative example: To turn my head left instead of right and avoiding a blow to that side of my head from behind. Non-combative example: Rappelling down a 710 foot deep mine-shaft (because it was there ) and stopping to rest and getting an overwhelming feeling to stop and head back up, turning around mid-rope and start climbing up, instead of continuing down and crossing another knot (several ropes were tied together), then hauling the rope up (end of the day/event) and finding one of the lower knots was tied improperly and thus wouldn't held. All because a little voice in my head said "not today ... not today." Was that instinct? A gut feeling? Or a higher power giving me a subtle hint? I'll call it a little of all three.
I try to keep myself honed to this day, but I find myself still caught by surprise, turning around and someone is there that I didn't realize before. It says I still have a long long way to go. But I'm happy with what I got now and work continually to expand it.

 

[mj-hi-yah]

Hello, All my life, I trusted my gut feelings and instincts. Today I feel there is a difference. For me anyway.
1: Gut feeling usually applys as a positive thought, like go for it! this the one!
2: Instincts usually tell me about the surroundings, to be aware, something does not feel right? Leave now?
Have any one of you felt this way? May I have some of you thoughts on this? Mahalo and Aloha

Still Learning thanks for this interesting thread!
To me these are two aspects of the same thing like on a continuum. Instincts being on the lower, more physical end of intuition with gut feeling being at the higher, more spiritual end along the same line of intuition.

From the ColumbiaUniversity Press Encyclopedia:
Instinctive behavior generally acts as an initiator or triggering mechanism to arouse the organism, and it is modified by learned behavior as well as innate regulatory mechanisms.

What does this mean? We all have innate responses or instinctual drives, as others have mentioned, to survive, feed, protect ourselves and our young etc., but in addition we react to given situations with sensory input based on the environment we live in that produces in us learned behaviors....

Relating this to Martial Arts, my innate instinctual response to a club coming down on my head prior to Martial Arts Training was to cover my head with both arms crossed and crouch down away from the strike. So my innate instinctual response was to protect my head, but in a way that might not save my life - this is done with out time to think it through a simple response to the stimuli. My instinctive behavior to this type of strike has been modified by my environment in studying and training in MAs. The result is a learned behavior that has changed my response, which now is to raise my arm (one or both depending on the angle of the attack) blocking the club.


So we have innate instinctual responses that can be modified by learned behaviors.


Moving further up the line (that being more spiritual rather than physical) we have the "gut feeling" in which we learn to listen to our "inner voice". To me this inner voice relates to both good and bad situations. The gut feeling is formed without any logical or perhaps rather physical proof...it is the higher end of our intuition the one that tells us, to use examples already given on this thread: not to go down the alley or board the plane.


McCaver I like your analogy of being at one with yourself and will equate it here to the higher end of the instinctual continuum as "listening to your gut feelings".


MJ