Guns

[KenpoTex]

...Although all of the various objects you have mentioned can be used for killing, none of them were invented with that in mind. I do not think that it takes a genius to understand that the point I was making in my original post is that anything that is designed for killing and ending life can not ethically and morally be classified as good. That belief has nothing to do whatsoever with gun control

If that is the point you were trying to make, you did a poor job. (Besides, that's your opinion and making such definitive statements leaves you wide open for criticism.)

you said:

I've voted that guns are bad, but that is because anything that can end a life (human or animal) with the tiniest of effort has to be bad.

All the things I mentioned before, while not purpose designed weapons, can end a life. According to you, that makes them "bad."

Then you said:

For the same reason I would vote that most weapons are bad.

Weapons are designed to end life (or, depending on your point of view, to save a life by ending someone else's). Are there some weapons (items designed to "end life") that aren't bad? Which ones don't fall into the "most weapons" category?
You're contradicting yourself

Apparently, you're saying that the taking of any life is bad? Even if said action allows an innocent person to stay alive?

If you got down of that high horse for one second and read my post properly you would have noted that I was not arguing against your precious right to carry firearms,

If you had posted something that was coherent, it might have helped. And when did I say anything about my right to own firearms? I'm not going to waste my time arguing that one with you.

Your post is one of the most rude and ignorant I've ever seen on this forum.

I might be willing to concede on the "rude" part but I think you've got the "ignorant" part all to yourself.


I'm done with this thread...

 

[myusername]

Ah the good old sentence by sentence deconstruction of an original post! The realm of the straw man forumer designed with nothing else in mind than to manipulate and twist words out of the context in which they were originally written. I have re read my original post in full and I believe is very clear to any with a brain cell what I was saying. Maybe I was expecting a little much of you. Regardless of what your perception of my post it did not warrant such an insulting and extreme reaction as the one you gave.

Feel free to disagree with any of my posts but just because a persons views are not the same as yours does not make those views "idiotic". I pity people who live their lives with such black and white thinking as they must spend such a great deal of time experiencing extreme frustration that the world does run by their own rules and is in fact populated by many different people with different views, standards and behaviours than their own.

I'm glad you have done with this thread. Perhaps you should take yourself down to the firing range and shoot away some of that frustration.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Ah the good old sentence by sentence deconstruction of an original post! The realm of the straw man forumer designed with nothing else in mind than to manipulate and twist words out of the context in which they were originally written. I have re read my original post in full and I believe is very clear to any with a brain cell what I was saying. Maybe I was expecting a little much of you. Regardless of what your perception of my post it did not warrant such an insulting and extreme reaction as the one you gave.

Feel free to disagree with any of my posts but just because a persons views are not the same as yours does not make those views "idiotic". I pity people who live their lives with such black and white thinking as they must spend such a great deal of time experiencing extreme frustration that the world does run by their own rules and is in fact populated by many different people with different views, standards and behaviours than their own.

I'm glad you have done with this thread. Perhaps you should take yourself down to the firing range and shoot away some of that frustration.

Actually, the notion that a gun is 'designed' for a purpose, and therefore retains some semblance of it's designers intent is a bit of anthropomorphism.....a logical fallacy in and of itself. It's based on the notion that an inanimate object can pick up a moral polarity by the intent of it's maker......it's simply ludicrious.

'Guns are designed to kill' the hopolophobe says......actually, no they are not....they are designed to accept a projectile of a certain caliber and propel it out of the end of the barrel....killing is an ACTION not a DESIGN! Only the human mind can will can kill with a gun.....devoid of a human hand and the will that controls it, a gun is a ROCK!

The idea of 'inherent badness' is, again, that fallacious anthropomorphism I mentioned earlier.....that the gun supernaturally picks up a will from it's maker. A gun is an animate object, a tool........designed to do what? It's ONLY ability is to do whatever the hand that wields it makes it do.....for good or ill.....it does not, LIKE THE RING OF SAURON, retain evil intent from it's maker! Though I suspect many hopolophobes imagine such.....that this inanimate object is embewed with some malevolent force!

Is a gun a weapon? Only in the hands that intend to use it as such....the designers intent is irrelavent once it leaves HIS hands. Is a baseball bat a sporting device or a weapon? It's a silly question, as the DECIDER of what it is, is the person holding it RIGHT NOW!

 

[allenjp]

Guns as with any weapon are not the problem it is how and why they are used that is the problem. If the would be criminal did not have the use of a gun he/she would find another weapon to use.

Yep.

 

[The Anarchist]

I think we need stronger fun control.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Is my fist bad? Is my foot bad? Ok, it does smell.

Are knives bad?

How about clubs?

How about cars (more killed with cars than guns.)

Or how about swimming pools. More people drowned in swimming pools than die by accident with guns.

In fact, Japan as more suicides, over 30,000, WITHOUT GUNS, than die by murder, commit suicide, or accident each year here WITH guns!

Guns give the weak a chance to fight the strong. Something many a liberal or even some martial artist don't see.

No gun's are not bad. They are equalizers. They level the playing field. It makes the weak on par with the strong.

God made our souls equal. Col. Colt made us equal.

Deaf

 

[The Anarchist]

Okay, sorry. I called it "fun control" cuz that's really what it is.

I am principally opposed to delegating any IMAGINED (and I cannot stress that part enough) power to uncle sam, no matter how much people think he needs it.

 

[TridentOne]

I voted good. Did anyone see the Simpsons where Homer opens his beer with his gun? I do that all the time.

 

[Oni-Chan]

I voted good because I feel that they are necessary to protect ourselves and families and also to maintain our freedom. The so-called good natured intent of the antis to lessen the violence is a fallacy because it has been proven in countries like Australia and Great Britain that when the law-abiding citizen has no gun and the criminal does the outcome is an increase in the violence not a decrease. =/

 

[searcher]

Is my fist bad? Is my foot bad? Ok, it does smell.

Are knives bad?

How about clubs?

How about cars (more killed with cars than guns.)

Or how about swimming pools. More people drowned in swimming pools than die by accident with guns.

In fact, Japan as more suicides, over 30,000, WITHOUT GUNS, than die by murder, commit suicide, or accident each year here WITH guns!

Guns give the weak a chance to fight the strong. Something many a liberal or even some martial artist don't see.

No gun's are not bad. They are equalizers. They level the playing field. It makes the weak on par with the strong.

God made our souls equal. Col. Colt made us equal.

Deaf

Superb post. The reason for the libs saying that guns are bad is it takes their ability to control the population. The libs want us to be sheep and move where they want us to go. They do not want us to be able to resist them in any way. JMHO.

 

[Hudson69]

Guns are tools and sporting goods. They are the tools of the military, LEO's, security and more but for the most part they are sporting goods used for plinking, high level target shooting, hunting and more.

Anyone who wants to take guns off of the streets and out of the hands of law abiding citizens has never been a victim and does not understand that if you outlaw firearms it will not stop the outlaws from getting firearms.

Enforce the laws we have and keep it at that. We have a good set in place but there are still violators (usually by the bandits that would go after you with a pipe if thier 9mm wasn't available).

 

[d1jinx]

LOVE THEM.:wuguns:
:armed:
this is my rifle this is my gun, this is for.......

 

[CoryKS]

Bought my first civilian rifle late last year, and I look forward to taking it out to the range soon. Haven't shot since my Marine days, but range week was my favorite part of the whole four years. Getting into position, controlling my breathing, and focusing all my attention through the sightposts is the most peaceful, calm sensation I've ever experienced. It may seem weird to non-shooters to describe it that way, but that's how it felt. Whenever I hear someone describing meditation or hypnotism, it always reminds me of range shooting.

 

[twendkata71]

There is a saying, "Any fool can pull a trigger" , sorry guys but even though I personally like firearms, I don't like the fact that every idiot on the street has one. If all of you guys are such advocates for guns, then why study martial arts??? Why not just buy a gun, and if someone messes with you, just shoot the poor S.O.B??? The reason is, you can NEVER give someone their life back after you have taken it. Think about how many deaths are gun related. I didn't say murders, I said deaths, accidental, and intentional. A 5 year old kid blowing their head off because daddy didn't lock up his gun is in my opinion just as bad as the dad shooting the kid himself. If he didn't have the gun, his kid would still be alive. What about all the Drive-by's, there have been over 30 in my area of L.A in the last couple of months, MY COUSIN WAS ONE OF THE VICTIMS!!!!!! He had a wife and 2 kids.....sorry getting emotional, anyways what about them, how do they grow up without their father??? A bullet doesn't know the difference between right and wrong, between young and old, between innocent and guilty. Are you gun owners such excellent shots that you can guarantee that you'll never miss??? I don't think so!!!


Everyone thinks a gun will solve their problems, it doesn't solve them, it just makes them worse. Look at our military, one gun bigger than the next. Do any of you want to die because some jerk with a nuke, doesn't like our politics??? I don't know about any of you, but I've never met the president, I've never talked to him, and I'm not a member of his cabinet. I just want to live my life, as best as I can. I shouldn't have to die from something I had nothing to do with. I'm not saying that I don't support our troops, because I do support them. I'm just saying this whole war thing would be easier if Bush and Saddam just put their hands up like real men and fought it out. What about ALL of the hospitals and schools that are destroyed over there, is it any wonder they hate Americans??? If you blew up my school I'd hate you too. What about friendly fire??? How many casualties of war have "we" had because dumb asses didn't know the difference between our troops and theirs??? Maybe if they had to get up close and personal to "fight" their opponents they would have noticed the difference between us and them. Instead of shooting them from 100 yards away. I have to honest here I really don't care if ANY one replies to this post, because NONE of you are going to change my mind about this subject, I've lost more than any man should ever have to because of guns.

Sincerely,
KenpoDragon

I study martial arts for protection and personal development. And in certain situations hand to hand combat is the best option. I also own firearms for protection. And it's my right to do so. If you are faced with an attacker that has a firearm, frankly your martial arts will not be so effective. No one is faster than a bullet. I have been practicing the martial arts for 35 years, but I have enough sense to know its limitations. I know and practice proper gun safety, so no one in my household handles my guns that shouldn't.
I do think it is far too easy for the wrong people to get firearms, and perhaps the background checks are not effective enough.
That's my opinion. you have yours and I have mine. I will leave it at that.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

Is my fist bad? Is my foot bad? Ok, it does smell.

Are knives bad?

How about clubs?

How about cars (more killed with cars than guns.)

Or how about swimming pools. More people drowned in swimming pools than die by accident with guns.

In fact, Japan as more suicides, over 30,000, WITHOUT GUNS, than die by murder, commit suicide, or accident each year here WITH guns!

Guns give the weak a chance to fight the strong. Something many a liberal or even some martial artist don't see.

No gun's are not bad. They are equalizers. They level the playing field. It makes the weak on par with the strong.

God made our souls equal. Col. Colt made us equal.

Deaf

The difference between a gun and any of the other things you mentioned is that it is inherently easier to inflict lethal damage onto someone with a gun, both morally and physically. Compare squeezing the trigger of a gun from range where all you will see is the other person fall to the ground like a mob in the video game, to having to walk into someone's face and stab them. They are worlds apart.

 

[Jenna]

I study martial arts for protection and personal development. And in certain situations hand to hand combat is the best option. I also own firearms for protection. And it's my right to do so. If you are faced with an attacker that has a firearm, frankly your martial arts will not be so effective. No one is faster than a bullet. I have been practicing the martial arts for 35 years, but I have enough sense to know its limitations. I know and practice proper gun safety, so no one in my household handles my guns that shouldn't.
I do think it is far too easy for the wrong people to get firearms, and perhaps the background checks are not effective enough.
That's my opinion. you have yours and I have mine. I will leave it at that.

Can you suggest what anyone would gain from paying heed to your opinion when, regarding firearms and bladed weapons, you are self-evidently a layperson and not a subject matter expert?

 

[PhotonGuy]

Good or Bad and Why? Cuz I know we have a lot of gun lovers and a lot of gun haters and those who only have them for protection. But what do you feel on the matter of them?

From my experience, martial artists tend to not be gun haters. Sure there are some martial artists who just don't care much for guns but that's not to say they're opposed to them, they're just not into guns, but they don't have a deep aversion to guns. This is just my experience. I've known many martial artists who shoot guns and who are really into it and I've met martial artists who don't shoot guns and who are more or less indifferent about guns but I've yet to meet a martial artist who has a deep hatred for guns the way some of those extreme left wing people do.

 

[Tez3]

From my experience, martial artists tend to not be gun haters. Sure there are some martial artists who just don't care much for guns but that's not to say they're opposed to them, they're just not into guns, but they don't have a deep aversion to guns. This is just my experience. I've known many martial artists who shoot guns and who are really into it and I've met martial artists who don't shoot guns and who are more or less indifferent about guns but I've yet to meet a martial artist who has a deep hatred for guns the way some of those extreme left wing people do.

'Extreme' left wing...roflmao. You wouldn't know a left winger if they came and bit you on the bum frankly. You do know Churchill was a Liberal, right? He flirted with Conservativism to get a job but was a Liberal through and through.

This is a very American thread, the subject under discussion is only a political hot potato there, no other country cares that much unless it's in a war. You need to remember that when you make such sweeping statements about martial artists, outside America people may have opinions on guns but they aren't strong ones and certainly not political ones.

 

[Grenadier]

Admin's Note:

Please note, that the political discussion of weaponry in this forum is not permitted, aside from actual legislative and / or legal matters.

If you wish to discuss the political nature of weaponry, please take it to one of the sites hosted by Forum Foundry, such as this one:

US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

 

[CB Jones]

Guns are good.

17 years of Law Enforcement part of which I worked violent crimes have taught me that you can only depend on yourself for protection.

If your plan is to wait for the cavalry or a white knight to swoop in and save you.....then you are just a victim-in-waiting.