Gun threat?

[Ceicei]

I work with some clients, many with a disability, either physical or mental (or both). There is one certain client who might have a mental issue, but he refuses to be evaluated.

Anyway, he had an altercation at his work, and as a result, lost his job. After his work, he had a run-in with a guy on the bus. Basically, he was already riled up. Somehow during the weekend, he got a hold of my home phone number and called repeatedly while I was away. Finally, my husband answered and made it clear to him not to call my home number any more and for him to call me directly at my work number with any work related stuff or else he will report this as phone harrassment.

The client then called me at work the next business day and vented about everything that happened to him. He also was venting about some "drug guys" who treated him poorly. Immediately after that, he started screaming about my husband, saying that my husband is so jealous to not let him talk to me at all. He then stated "I have a gun. I don't like people who make me angry." I explained calmly to him that my husband doesn't have anything personal against him, just that he is not to call my home again and anything related to work has to be called through my work number. He then repeated the same "I have a gun" comment for emphasis, leaving me wondering whether that was a threat against my husband or me, or if it is just a general expression of frustration.

Some of the people I work with are very unpredictable, and he is one of these. The question is how seriously should I take this? As is mandated by my work, I had to file an incident report and this was transmitted to the local police to keep on record. This is all they can do at this point.

The thing is, if he has my home number, he very surely has my home address too.

As you know, I train in Kenpo (2nd brown) and in Jujitsu (1 year). I have my own guns at home as well as a pair of big dogs. When out, I can pack a gun with a concealed carry permit. However, none of that will stop a determined person with a gun, if that is his intent. I also realized that I know very little of gun disarms (since kenpo doesn't teach these gun techniques until 1st brown).

I sincerely hope he is "all talk and no action". I don't think he has a firearm available to him, but who knows....

Anyway, I just wanted to get this out to you as this whole situation has been on my mind lately.

- Ceicei

 

[Drac]

Attempting a gun disarm is a DANGEROUS business...Make the local cops aware of the situation, provide any and all information you can on him, lat them know that he has a firearm..Any threats involving a firearm should be taken seriously...Yes,his repeating "I have a gun" could just be venting his frustration at the world, but NO ONE can be certain of that..

 

[Rich Parsons]

I work with some clients, many with a disability, either physical or mental (or both). There is one certain client who might have a mental issue, but he refuses to be evaluated.

Anyway, he had an altercation at his work, and as a result, lost his job. After his work, he had a run-in with a guy on the bus. Basically, he was already riled up. Somehow during the weekend, he got a hold of my home phone number and called repeatedly while I was away. Finally, my husband answered and made it clear to him not to call my home number any more and for him to call me directly at my work number with any work related stuff or else he will report this as phone harrassment.

The client then called me at work the next business day and vented about everything that happened to him. He also was venting about some "drug guys" who treated him poorly. Immediately after that, he started screaming about my husband, saying that my husband is so jealous to not let him talk to me at all. He then stated "I have a gun. I don't like people who make me angry." I explained calmly to him that my husband doesn't have anything personal against him, just that he is not to call my home again and anything related to work has to be called through my work number. He then repeated the same "I have a gun" comment for emphasis, leaving me wondering whether that was a threat against my husband or me, or if it is just a general expression of frustration.

Some of the people I work with are very unpredictable, and he is one of these. The question is how seriously should I take this? As is mandated by my work, I had to file an incident report and this was transmitted to the local police to keep on record. This is all they can do at this point.

The thing is, if he has my home number, he very surely has my home address too.

As you know, I train in Kenpo (2nd brown) and in Jujitsu (1 year). I have my own guns at home as well as a pair of big dogs. When out, I can pack a gun with a concealed carry permit. However, none of that will stop a determined person with a gun, if that is his intent. I also realized that I know very little of gun disarms (since kenpo doesn't teach these gun techniques until 1st brown).

I sincerely hope he is "all talk and no action". I don't think he has a firearm available to him, but who knows....

Anyway, I just wanted to get this out to you as this whole situation has been on my mind lately.

- Ceicei

You did the right thing about filing the report.

You also told him that it was not personal and it was work related.

We people are angry they sometimes project their feelings upon others, so, he might be the one who actually jealous, but not knowing the person, nor you, this is just a comment on the net. I only mention it so you can reflect upon it yourself, and take any action required based upon your pondering.

As to gun disarms, Try them with a simple squirt gun that has a much slower reaction time then a real gun. See how many times you or the person next to you get wet. Like anything it take practice and knowledge.

Hopefully he just vented on you and that is it. And he will go away.

 

[wade]

Krav Maga has some very nice techniques to be used against hand guns, go to their site on this board and watch, you might learn something. I went to some seminars in Tampa Bay a few years back and did the Krav Maga seminars then bought the tapes. I still use and teach the stuff I learned there.

 

[Dave Leverich]

The airsoft guns work well for the training as well, as they are realistic size etc.

Though, don't practice in alleys without letting the local law enforcement know... That thing in the news a year ago? My friends school. I don't think they use the alleys for realistic environment anymore.

 

[MJS]

I work with some clients, many with a disability, either physical or mental (or both). There is one certain client who might have a mental issue, but he refuses to be evaluated.

Anyway, he had an altercation at his work, and as a result, lost his job. After his work, he had a run-in with a guy on the bus. Basically, he was already riled up. Somehow during the weekend, he got a hold of my home phone number and called repeatedly while I was away. Finally, my husband answered and made it clear to him not to call my home number any more and for him to call me directly at my work number with any work related stuff or else he will report this as phone harrassment.

The client then called me at work the next business day and vented about everything that happened to him. He also was venting about some "drug guys" who treated him poorly. Immediately after that, he started screaming about my husband, saying that my husband is so jealous to not let him talk to me at all. He then stated "I have a gun. I don't like people who make me angry." I explained calmly to him that my husband doesn't have anything personal against him, just that he is not to call my home again and anything related to work has to be called through my work number. He then repeated the same "I have a gun" comment for emphasis, leaving me wondering whether that was a threat against my husband or me, or if it is just a general expression of frustration.

Some of the people I work with are very unpredictable, and he is one of these. The question is how seriously should I take this? As is mandated by my work, I had to file an incident report and this was transmitted to the local police to keep on record. This is all they can do at this point.

The thing is, if he has my home number, he very surely has my home address too.

As you know, I train in Kenpo (2nd brown) and in Jujitsu (1 year). I have my own guns at home as well as a pair of big dogs. When out, I can pack a gun with a concealed carry permit. However, none of that will stop a determined person with a gun, if that is his intent. I also realized that I know very little of gun disarms (since kenpo doesn't teach these gun techniques until 1st brown).

I sincerely hope he is "all talk and no action". I don't think he has a firearm available to him, but who knows....

Anyway, I just wanted to get this out to you as this whole situation has been on my mind lately.

- Ceicei

I agree with what was already said. You did the right thing as far as reporting it goes. However, I'd think that there would be more that can be done, given the nature of the threat. Have you personally talked with the police or did you just go thru work? If necessary, a restraining/protective order can be filed. In addition, if they already haven't, I'd think that the police would want to speak with this person, evaluate him and check to make sure that if he does in fact own a weapon, that everything is legit.

 

[Bigshadow]

Based on what I remember from Gavin DeBecker's "The Gift of Fear", the truly dangerous ones, didn't make threats. I believe he stated that most often if threats are made, they were less likely to acted upon. Threats are about recognition. Just a few thoughts.

If you haven't read the book, I would highly suggest reading it. In it, it gives checklists to determine the outcome of certain situations. If this were one, you indicated two things that can aggrevate the matter. The "Don't call again" and the police report. Gavin explains that doing these things can excalate things in a situation that can be controlled with other tactics. For instance, it is far more effective to ignore the call. Again, it is about recognition and answering the call regardless of the conversation is recognition.

 

[morph4me]

I agree with everything said so far. You definetly did the right thing in reporting it, you should take the threat very seriously, even if he doesn't have a gun, and I would follow up with a personal report to the police, not just something that was transmitted from work.

As far as gun disarms go, I teach them to my students, with the following caveat. Weapons disarms are for use ONLY when you have nothing to lose. if the choice is to try to disarm the person or die doing nothing. Disarms are dangerous and leave little room for error.

 

[Ceicei]

Thank you all for your comments.

Bigshadow, I strongly suspect that my client does have a type of a mental illness; at the very least, he has a known drug history. About that book saying those who "talk threats" are most likely not going to take action may be typical, but when it comes to people with mental issues and/or drug problems, they often don't pay attention to social mores and can be unpredictable.

So far, its been a quiet couple of days. I hope it stays that way.

- Ceicei

 

[MA-Caver]

Lets hope it stays that way permanently ...

I'm praying for you and your hubby... because there's not much I can do to help at this situation.
All the LEO's here have given good advice and the others as well. I can't add more to it.
Hopefully this guy will do something stupid (not involving you and yours ...or hurting anyone else) and get himself thrown in jail and then maybe get some help.

You've my love and support always... keep in touch and heighten (both of) your awareness levels for the time being.

 

[Bigshadow]

Thank you all for your comments.

Bigshadow, I strongly suspect that my client does have a type of a mental illness; at the very least, he has a known drug history. About that book saying those who "talk threats" are most likely not going to take action may be typical, but when it comes to people with mental issues and/or drug problems, they often don't pay attention to social mores and can be unpredictable.

So far, its been a quiet couple of days. I hope it stays that way.

- Ceicei

Be safe! That is most important.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Attempting a gun disarm is a DANGEROUS business...Make the local cops aware of the situation, provide any and all information you can on him, lat them know that he has a firearm..Any threats involving a firearm should be taken seriously...Yes,his repeating "I have a gun" could just be venting his frustration at the world, but NO ONE can be certain of that..

Based on what I remember from Gavin DeBecker's "The Gift of Fear", the truly dangerous ones, didn't make threats. I believe he stated that most often if threats are made, they were less likely to acted upon. Threats are about recognition. Just a few thoughts.

If you haven't read the book, I would highly suggest reading it. In it, it gives checklists to determine the outcome of certain situations. If this were one, you indicated two things that can aggrevate the matter. The "Don't call again" and the police report. Gavin explains that doing these things can excalate things in a situation that can be controlled with other tactics. For instance, it is far more effective to ignore the call. Again, it is about recognition and answering the call regardless of the conversation is recognition.

Both of the above posts are filled with very good advice. Work report, police report and a heightened sence of awareness for both yourself and your husband. Also vary your usual routine and pay attention to everyone around you. Hopefully this is nothing serious but take every precaution you can and be safe.

 

[theletch1]

CeiCei, there's really nothing that I can add to this thread above and beyond what the rest of our fellow martial artists have said. However, I just wanted to post here that Erica and I will be wishing you the best and keeping you in our prayers.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Big shadow is right...do not response to the other person. Do not answer your phone (leave recording on), you may want to change your phone numbers.

READ " The gift of Fear" section on personal threats......The more you talk to the other person the more it will escalate. BEST answer is to ingnore this person totally. YES it is hard....but it works....Aloha

 

[Drac]

Hello, Big shadow is right...do not response to the other person. Do not answer your phone (leave recording on), you may want to change your phone numbers

Do you have HIS phone number?? If so the check with your local phone company about having a "trap" installed..It will then record everytime he calls your number and can be used it court..If he does show up in court (if it goes that far) and gets stupid with the judge the court can order an evauation..

 

[Bigshadow]

Do you have HIS phone number?? If so the check with your local phone company about having a "trap" installed..It will then record everytime he calls your number and can be used it court..If he does show up in court (if it goes that far) and gets stupid with the judge the court can order an evauation..

Actually according to what Gavin was saying that this is responding. His advice was to leave a recording on the number and get a new number for people you want to contact you. This way the recording will give authorities information and it is essentially ignoring the calls. To block it would be the same as answering to the caller because it is a response it is recognition.

 

[exile]

I agree with what was already said. You did the right thing as far as reporting it goes. However, I'd think that there would be more that can be done, given the nature of the threat. Have you personally talked with the police or did you just go thru work? If necessary, a restraining/protective order can be filed. In addition, if they already haven't, I'd think that the police would want to speak with this person, evaluate him and check to make sure that if he does in fact own a weapon, that everything is legit.

I have to say that, while I think everyone who's posted so far on this has valid points, Mike's suggestions about maybe following it up with a personal interview with a police officer and some of the further steps he alludes to are definitely worth thinking about. It's true, as Bigshadow says in his reference to DeBecker's analysis, that you are less likely to face lethal danger from someone who talks about a weapon than someone who has a weapon but says nothing. The problem is that there are always outliers on the curve---people who don't fit the statistical profile, and even one of these is enough to be Big Trouble. In your place, I'm pretty sure I'd follow things up with another discussion with the police and possibly further action along the lines Mike mentions... good luck with this, please be careful and let us know how things are unfolding here...

 

[MA-Caver]

Do you have HIS phone number?? If so the check with your local phone company about having a "trap" installed..It will then record everytime he calls your number and can be used it court..If he does show up in court (if it goes that far) and gets stupid with the judge the court can order an evauation..

While that's a good idea, keep in mind that Ceicei herself is deaf and thus cannot use the phone as hearing people do (I am severely hard of hearing) Also that her client may also be deaf and it's the same thing. Deaf people use the "phone" in one of two ways now-a-days. 1. An "old" way using a TTY/TDD machine, where the deaf would type out on a lighted display what they wanted to say and read the replies, they also have relay interpreters for this between hearing and deaf people.
2. More popular now and rapidly phasing out the TDD machines are video phones. Small boxes with video cameras hooked up to the house's main internet connection and a small television and deaf people can use sign-language to communicate or use a sign-language interpreter via a relay service.
So your idea has merit, a "trap" wouldn't work. Now she could hook up a VCR or A DVD-R to the TV and record the conversation.... providing that the client is deaf or calls her using a relay service if they're hearing.

Hello, Big shadow is right...do not response to the other person. Do not answer your phone (leave recording on), you may want to change your phone numbers.

READ " The gift of Fear" section on personal threats......The more you talk to the other person the more it will escalate. BEST answer is to ignore this person totally. YES it is hard....but it works....Aloha

I don't know if totally ignoring a person who is upset/irate with you is a great idea ... it may piss them off even more. Some people may just want to talk. If I were upset with someone (or vice-versa) I'd want to have an open line of communication. But then I'm a civilized human being (as are 95% of the people on this board) and not prone to rash physical means of expressing myself. Well sometimes an inanimate object may get a punch or kick (or two) but ... anyway... So it's a sticky to ignore or not ignore. Sometimes ignoring can only heighten the frustration and anger that's building up. Ignoring sometimes (mistakenly) translates to "I don't care!" This guy is crying out for attention... for some people (especially those with potential mental illnesses), it's what the term "going-postal" applies to.
I think as long as she maintains communication in the calm-rational manner that I know she is highly capable of ... and at her office in town since it's a government building whenever she is there and not working out of her home. But at home at least she has access to her armory...
Otherwise if it continues to escalate then she could let her hometown police be aware of the situation and they can send a patrol car around once in awhile... she is a government employee... one would think she has certian rights of protection.

I truly hope this turns out okay. Still praying.

 

[jks9199]

Attempting a gun disarm is a DANGEROUS business...Make the local cops aware of the situation, provide any and all information you can on him, lat them know that he has a firearm..Any threats involving a firearm should be taken seriously...Yes,his repeating "I have a gun" could just be venting his frustration at the world, but NO ONE can be certain of that..

Ditto... with emphasis.

Reality check... How many times do you get hit trying to block a punch doing something along the lines of one-step sparring exercises?

Think it's going to go any better against a guy with a gun?

Now... for those who insist on playing with gun disarms... Get some good eye protecting goggles, and an airsoft gun, or something similar. Even a squirt gun can do... And try some of your gun disarms. I'll bet that you get hit more than once if the person who's holding the gun is halfway serious.

There's no good, guaranteed gun disarm. If you can run -- RUN. If you can get out by giving up your wallet... Do it. Then RUN. If you really think that the bad guy's going to shoot you -- commit 110% to taking him down.

For Ceicei -- be extra mindful of your surroundings, and I'd suggest looking to see if you could pass this guy off to another person. If you haven't, file a report with your local police at home regarding the phone harassment; this simply documents the situation more thoroughly. (I'm assuming you included that aspect in the report you made at work.) If you really think he'll try to kill you, and you've got a legal permit to carry -- carry.

 

[Drac]

Actually according to what Gavin was saying that this is responding. His advice was to leave a recording on the number and get a new number for people you want to contact you. This way the recording will give authorities information and it is essentially ignoring the calls. To block it would be the same as answering to the caller because it is a response it is recognition.

You are probably right

While that's a good idea, keep in mind that Ceicei herself is deaf and thus cannot use the phone as hearing people do

I was unaware of that..Yes,a trap would not be the best option then.