Gun banning and fast and furious...

[JohnEdward]

John, you`re comparing apples and oranges again. The weapons the cartels are buying from regular gunstores aren`t capable of doing that. They`re buying up semi-auto weapons (one bullet per trigger pull) and taking them down there. The stores don`t have a liscense to sell what you trying to ban, and each time you buy a class 3 weapon (one capable of full auto fire) there`s a huge investigation buy local and federal LEOs. Each and every time.

Chingo wa!

Mexico-Drug-War-Wea_501688c.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Drug_War#Gun_origins

 

[billc]

Where the Cartels get their guns:

http://frontpagemag.com/2011/04/19/where-drug-cartels-really-get-their-arms/

According to the published documents, U.S. diplomats in Mexico

believe that these weapons, such as grenades and rocket launchers, are being stolen from the armed forces of Central American countries. They arrive in Mexico via the 577-mile Guatemalan border that only 125 Mexican immigration officials guard. Hezbollah and the Colombian FARC terrorist groups also deserve blame, as there are increasing indicationsthat they are in bed with the drug cartels and are providing them with training, financing and possibly arms.

As Matt Allen, Special Agent of Immigration Customs and Enforcement explained to FoxNews.com, “[N]ot every weapon seized in Mexico has a serial number on it that would make it traceable, and the U.S. effort to trace weapons really only extends to weapons that have been in the U.S. market.” Of the guns sent to the ATF for tracing, a large amount could not be traced and therefore are not accounted for in the statistic. Guns known to be from domestic sources, like the Mexican police or military, and guns from foreign countries are not submitted.

 

[ballen0351]

Yea, lucky them. You might want to share that with the Mexican police.

so now we need to adjust our Constitutionlaws because of things going on in Mexico?

 

[billc]

And an important point from the article above:

In addition, it simply doesn’t make sense for the Mexican drug cartels to make the U.S. their primary point of gun acquisition. As Howard Nemerov writes, “Why would cartels spend over $1,000 — plus a background check and smuggling risks — for a decent American semi-automatic rifle, when they can buy 4-5 fully automatic AK-47s for the same price on the black market?”
Even if it were true that U.S. gun laws are responsible for the violence in Mexico, these arms have to cross the porous border to end up being used in the drug war. Securing the border is a much more sensible solution than severe gun control laws, which wouldn’t be able to stop already-purchased guns from going south. This obvious fact isn’t mentioned because the Mexican government and left-wing politicians would rather portray gun control, rather than border security, as the solution.

 

[ballen0351]

It always amazes me how people think if we ban guns then gun crimes will stop. By its very definition a criminal does not follow the LAW that's why they are Criminals.

 

[JohnEdward]

The mexican police are dealing with para-military drug cartels. They actually have a problem with a military style operation, supplied by Chinese and European weapons, and once again, they are against Mexican law, and the activity of the drug cartels is ILLEGAL. This once again shows that banning these weapons will not work. The criminals understand their needs better than the do gooders do. They will ILLEGALLY acquire the tools they need to get their business done, without regard to what the law says.

Yea, that's the liberal NIMBY argument I was waiting for from a conservative, good job Bill.

 

[JohnEdward]

It always amazes me how people think if we ban guns then gun crimes will stop. By its very definition a criminal does not follow the LAW that's why they are Criminals.

It amazes me that people think that.... people think that ^^^^^^.

 

[ballen0351]

It amazes me that people think that.... people think that ^^^^^^.

sadly john you think that you have made it clear. You want to ban these weapons so the drug cartels will stop shooting eachother in Mexico. You seem to think banning these guns the bad guys will say oh darn I can't use that AK any more its banned I guess I better turn it in.

 

[JohnEdward]

so now we need to adjust our Constitutionlaws because of things going on in Mexico?

Here now let's bring my mother and how well she throws cow patties, as then we need to adjust the Bill of Rights.

 

[JohnEdward]

Ok guys, this is gotten pretty bad and y'all are scrapping the bottom of the barrel. It's time to call it quits, ya gave it a good run, ya did yer best, but it's over. Time to close the barn yard door on this and go home. This horse race is over.

 

[billc]

I didn't get the nimby argument in my post.

 

[ballen0351]

Here now let's bring my mother and how well she throws cow patties, as then we need to adjust the Bill of Rights.

Your the one using a problem in mexico as a reason to change laws in the US not me. Of course that was after your first few arguments were proven wrong. So now your just using keith oberman talking points

 

[ballen0351]

Ok guys, this is gotten pretty bad and y'all are scrapping the bottom of the barrel. It's time to call it quits, ya gave it a good run, ya did yer best, but it's over. Time to close the barn yard door on this and go home. This horse race is over.

yeah your right we have effectively beaten all your lies and lib talking points you can go now. Thanks for playing try harder next time maybe try to get a few facts to back up your points.

 

[JohnEdward]

yeah your right we have effectively beaten all your lies and lib talking points you can go now. Thanks for playing try harder next time maybe try to get a few facts to back up your points.

Now...now...now, no need to be a sore loser. No need for poor sportsmanship here. Time to move on to something else.

 

[elder999]

Oh my dear.

Prior to the 1994 federal assault weapons ban, the legal definition of an "assault rifle" was one capable of fully automatic fire. The 1994 law entered the vagueness zone with a variety of features for pistols, rifles and shotguns: if I put a pistol grip stock on a semi-automatic shotgun with a fixed capacity of more than 5 rounds, it becomes an "assault weapon." If I have a rifle with any of two purely cosmetic features, it becomes an "assault weapon," regardless of caliber or servicability: bayonet lug and folding stock? Well then, it doesn't matter if it only fires .22 shorts, it's an assault weapon.

How about this? Should it be banned, or should I be permitted to own it? It fires .308, has a single stack 10 round magazine-though I have 5 round ones that are legal for elk hunting, it's likely that I'll only load a single shot-I just bought it this year, and haven't taken it hunting at all......fierce looking, isn't it? That seems to me, anyway, to be the only qualification for a banned weapon.......

 

[JohnEdward]

Oh my dear.

Prior to the 1994 federal assault weapons ban, the legal definition of an "assault rifle" was one capable of fully automatic fire. The 1994 law entered the vagueness zone with a variety of features for pistols, rifles and shotguns: if I put a pistol grip stock on a semi-automatic shotgun with a fixed capacity of more than 5 rounds, it becomes an "assault weapon." If I have a rifle with any of two purely cosmetic features, it becomes an "assault weapon," regardless of caliber or servicability: bayonet lug and folding stock? Well then, it doesn't matter if it only fires .22 shorts, it's an assault weapon.

How about this? Should it be banned, or should I be permitted to own it? It fires .308, has a single stack 10 round magazine-though I have 5 round ones that are legal for elk hunting, it's likely that I'll only load a single shot-I just bought it this year, and haven't taken it hunting at all......fierce looking, isn't it? That seems to me, anyway, to be the only qualification for a banned weapon.......

FWIW, I know way back before 1994, a shotgun barrel sawed-off...period...was consider an assault weapon. Later barrel length came into place determining an assault weapon.

 

[Blindside]

FWIW, I know way back before 1994, a shotgun barrel sawed-off...period...was consider an assault weapon. Later barrel length came into place determining an assault weapon.

Which state? Most states have laws against sawed off shotguns but that doesn't mean that they fit the criteria for an "assault" weapon, simply that they are banned.

 

[elder999]

FWIW, I know way back before 1994, a shotgun barrel sawed-off...period...was consider an assault weapon. Later barrel length came into place determining an assault weapon.

Prior to 1994 the classification "assault weapon" did not exist; there were "assault rifles," which were classified as full-auto capable selective fire rifles, and were already mostly banned as "machine guns" by the National Firearms Act of 1934, as were "sawed-off" shotguns, shotguns with barrels shorter than 18" or stocks shorter than 26".

 

[David43515]

Chingo wa!

Mexico-Drug-War-Wea_501688c.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Drug_War#Gun_origins

Chingo Wa? A picture of a rack full of uzis and a link to Wikipedea? A link, by the way, that actually says that the weapons they`re getting from the US aren`t capable of full auto firing without being modified and that the millitary grade weapons are coming in from the Guatamalan border or being stolen from the Mexican govt. What are you trying to do, prove my point by repeating it?

 

[JohnEdward]

Back in the day, the classification of "assault rifles" for shot guns didn't exist, for us, at least what we were aware of. Years later we told or heard about barrel lengths requirements. But we didn't know any of that back then. We didn't have the internet back than. Hell, for kicks we'd make other modifications to our shot guns (and other rifles), not because we where moonshiners, either. Prohibition was long over. We had guns on the farm as a tool and for hunting and killing varmints. We were making prototypes and not realizing it. On the farm in those days guns were used for hunting and killing varmints. But, we where learning by doing. Modifying a gun for practicality reasons on the farm, at least we thought so. Funny story how we ran into a bear, armed to the teeth but ran like hell. :lol: Times have changed. Thanks for bring back old memories.