Group Objects To Catalog

[MJS]

http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_ne...-objects-to-gay-dads-in-jcpenney-catalog?lite

An online group is criticizing JCPenney for a catalog that features a Dallas gay couple and their children. One Million Moms is asking its members to avoid shopping at the Plano, Texas-based retailer, saying it is "disturbed" that the company is "continuing down the same path of promoting sin in their advertisements."
The catalog featuring Cooper Smith and Todd Koch, of Oak Cliff, Texas, began arriving in mailboxes last week.
"We knew that there would be some opposition, but it's nothing that we haven't heard from people our whole lives," Smith said. "It's just part of growing up gay."

Thoughts? IMO, I think this group consists of a bunch of *******s. Hey, I have nothing against religion. What pisses me off, is when one group finds it necessary to 'preach' their beliefs on others. For example...if I said, "Yes, my family and I celebrate Christmas." and another religion says, "My family doesnt celebrate Christmas." thats fine, cool, don't celebrate it...doesnt bother me at all. But, what I don't want to hear from that other group is why *I* shouldn't, and start the laundry list of reasons. STFU, I'm not interested in hearing you!

I can assume the pic we see is something thats posssibly shown in the catalog. Is it really the crime of the century?

 

[Jenna]

I can only guess that it is fear in people Mike that brings them to this.. Yet there is nothing for them to fear in gay partnerships.. society will not collapse.. Gay partnerships have been around for as long as people have been around.. And if religion were not strong enough to take what mere humans can throw at it then it without getting itself in a hissy fit then it should be thrown out as a support and a guide for ti is useless..

I do not like when religion is used as a stick to beat people with. God is love. Religion is a vehicle with which to express that love. When it is used as a weapon to beat people with then all that is demonstrated is ignorance and hypocrisy which is the true religion of many otherwise claiming piety.. Yet it is not for any of us to judge them unless we ourselfs are perfect yes?? So they do what they do and that is for them.. we are all trying to get along.. God made everyone as they are it is a point always missed by religious anti-whatever people..

Thank you for your post Mike.. reading it makes me annoyed and but I am grateful that you have posted it.. x

 

[WC_lun]

You'd think the underwear adds would be of more concern. I mean showing those young ladies with such lose morals that they parade around in thier underclothes!

Seriously though, kudos to the dads. At least they are stepping up and being parents to those kids in an age where many males feel a few dollars equates to good parenting. Kudos for JC Pennies for putting them in the ad. News to Million Moms, there are gay parents, even in the great state of Texas. Get used to it and deal with it. Of course, JC Penny may have banked on the free publicity from such groups. That's the cynic in me speaking.

 

[granfire]

But when you buy those clothes you catch the gay!

Then you will be gay, your children will grow up to be gay.....even your great grand parents will posthumously turn gay.....

 

[Sukerkin]

ROFLKLITA, gran

I also had to have a little chuckle at my own expense as I had just finished work when I the read thread title and my brain tried to turn it into a coding instruction :lol: ... but "Group Objects to Catalog" made no sense, unless Catalog is an array name of course ... and what type of Objects are they that are to be Grouped?

 

[granfire]

ROFLKLITA, gran

I also had to have a little chuckle at my own expense as I had just finished work when I the read thread title and my brain tried to turn it into a coding instruction :lol: ... but "Group Objects to Catalog" made no sense, unless Catalog is an array name of course ... and what type of Objects are they that are to be Grouped?

Yes, that was the way my brain was reading the title, too, after Carol's exercise with the wood and the clay....I still don't get that one.....

 

[ballen0351]

So why is it OK for you to voice your opinion about the group but its not OK for them to voice their opinion?

 

[Sukerkin]

They can voice their opinion right up to the point that there is a danger of someone listening to their ridiculous views who has an eye for what the statue books might have to say on hate speech.

They can at that point concede that they have no legal leg to stand on and go back to discussing amongst themselves what their god says they should do about this awful 'sin' ... the coding for which just happens to have been part of human genome since, well, since we evolved into an identifiable sub-species of hominid.

As there is no real god, that is a particularly fruitless thing for them to do but it's their time to waste at the end of the day. They'd be better off with some of the classical deities as they might have more fun and stop trying to project their insecurities onto others who are probably having a rough enough time as it is trying to find their way in a culture that is still, largely, homophobic.

Live and let live, is a good rule that I try to follow but, to paraphrase the old bar sign about credit, please don't come spouting nonsense at me as a smack in the mouth often offends (I am mostly kidding with that ... mostly ).

EDIT: I should just add, of course, that the "there is no god" bits are just my opinion, formulated from both the scientific observations of the past few centuries and my perceptions of how religious institutions/bodies have acted throughout recorded history.

 

[MJS]

So why is it OK for you to voice your opinion about the group but its not OK for them to voice their opinion?

LMFAO! Seriously? Well, lets see:

1) What my opinion is, isn't hate speech.

2) I voiced my opinion without the hate that they used. You know, just like when people protest. I've got no issues with that...protest away, as long as its peaceful, but once you start acting like an ***, ie: lighting things on fire, flipping cars, well, you get the idea..I think.

3) I'm not using the Bible or religion in my post.

4) I'm not asking people to protest by closing accounts and refusing catalogs.

5) I'm not asking people to step down, like they suggested with Ellen.

Want me to keep going? Ok...

6) I'm not asking people to boycott a shopping plaza.

7) I'm not a religious nut job, who feels I have to play God and talk about the Bible.

8) I could care less who's in the ads...gay, straight, whatever. Its not going to stop me from shopping at JC Penney.

So, I take it that you agree with the group? See, like I said about the protests....theres a smart way and a dumb way....I know which way they choose.

 

[blindsage]

So why is it OK for you to voice your opinion about the group but its not OK for them to voice their opinion?

Can I ask at what point did anyone say that the group should not be allowed to voice their opinion? I have seen this over and over again in conversations in which people criticize, specifically, Christian groups and their opinions. Someone chimes into the conversation that is a Christian and somehow implies the criticisms of the group and its opinions are somehow an effort at censorship when NOTHING OF THE KIND IS HAPPENING. It's perfectly fine for them to voice their opinion, and it's perfectly fine for everyone else to disagree with them and judge them for judging others.

 

[Wo Fat]

So why is it OK for you to voice your opinion about the group but its not OK for them to voice their opinion?

I sorta see where you're going. But then, there aren't always moral equivalents to all issues. For instance, us being opposed to the Taliban doesn't mean that the Taliban's opposition to us is morally equal.

 

[Jenna]

They can voice their opinion right up to the point that there is a danger of someone listening to their ridiculous views who has an eye for what the statue books might have to say on hate speech.

They can at that point concede that they have no legal leg to stand on and go back to discussing amongst themselves what their god says they should do about this awful 'sin' ... the coding for which just happens to have been part of human genome since, well, since we evolved into an identifiable sub-species of hominid.

As there is no real god, that is a particularly fruitless thing for them to do but it's their time to waste at the end of the day. They'd be better off with some of the classical deities as they might have more fun and stop trying to project their insecurities onto others who are probably having a rough enough time as it is trying to find their way in a culture that is still, largely, homophobic.

Live and let live, is a good rule that I try to follow but, to paraphrase the old bar sign about credit, please don't come spouting nonsense at me as a smack in the mouth often offends (I am mostly kidding with that ... mostly ).

EDIT: I should just add, of course, that the "there is no god" bits are just my opinion, formulated from both the scientific observations of the past few centuries and my perceptions of how religious institutions/bodies have acted throughout recorded history.

Insecurities is good reasoning here I think.. Can I ask please why do you imagine these people they are insecure? Why do you think they are rattled to such a great extent like this?

And it is ok to say there is no God you need not justify your opinion at least you are not seeking to remove anyone elses liberty to believe what they believe so it is all good.. I think what you say Mark these are lessons from moderate atheists/agnostics that I imagine might be well learnt by those professing piety in all its forms.. I think in this case to use belief in God as justification for tormenting another soul it is to take the holy text (in this case the Bible) and read it backwards.. pffft.. these people like to despise other people well that is fine.. at least it keeps them busy.. the devil makes work I guess..

 

[Jenna]

You'd think the underwear adds would be of more concern. I mean showing those young ladies with such lose morals that they parade around in thier underclothes!

Seriously though, kudos to the dads. At least they are stepping up and being parents to those kids in an age where many males feel a few dollars equates to good parenting. Kudos for JC Pennies for putting them in the ad. News to Million Moms, there are gay parents, even in the great state of Texas. Get used to it and deal with it. Of course, JC Penny may have banked on the free publicity from such groups. That's the cynic in me speaking.

I think you are right to be cynical over nefarious commercial stunts if that is all this amounts to.. I had not even thought of it like this.. Well I guess it is fun for us all to be played for dupes..

 

[ballen0351]

LMFAO! Seriously? Well, lets see:

1) What my opinion is, isn't hate speech.

What part of the article was hate speech? They said we dont agree with the lifestyle so put refused and return to sender on the catalog and send them back? How is that Hate speech?

2) I voiced my opinion without the hate that they used. You know, just like when people protest. I've got no issues with that...protest away, as long as its peaceful, but once you start acting like an ***, ie: lighting things on fire, flipping cars, well, you get the idea..I think.

IMO, I think this group consists of a bunch of *******s
Hmmm sounds like hate to me. When did this group say anything about lighting things on fire I missed that in the article?

3) I'm not using the Bible or religion in my post.

so if you quote the bible your point is no longer valid in your world?

4) I'm not asking people to protest by closing accounts and refusing catalogs.

and? Thats a tactic used by almost every group put there. No matter what they believe in.

5) I'm not asking people to step down, like they suggested with Ellen.

ellen should step down her show is crap has nothing to do with her being gay but again so what groups demand people be fired all the time everyone from Rush to Al Sharpton to Bush to Ellen has had some group demand they be fired

Want me to keep going? Ok...

Not really but It seems you did anyway

6) I'm not asking people to boycott a shopping plaza.

again so what its a tactic that has worked and all groups do it not just the ******s as you like to refer to them as

7) I'm not a religious nut job, who feels I have to play God and talk about the Bible.

yep no anger or hate in your arguments

8) I could care less who's in the ads...gay, straight, whatever. Its not going to stop me from shopping at JC Penney.

great Im happy for you shop away its good for the economy

So, I take it that you agree with the group? See, like I said about the protests....theres a smart way and a dumb way....I know which way they choose.

Nope I dont aree with them. I believe JC Penny is a private company and they are free to put who ever they want in the catalog. My question was why is it ok for YOU to cry about the *******s but its not Ok for them to cry about JC Penny?

 

[ballen0351]

I sorta see where you're going. But then, there aren't always moral equivalents to all issues. For instance, us being opposed to the Taliban doesn't mean that the Taliban's opposition to us is morally equal.

It is to a Taliban member.

 

[ballen0351]

Can I ask at what point did anyone say that the group should not be allowed to voice their opinion? I have seen this over and over again in conversations in which people criticize, specifically, Christian groups and their opinions. Someone chimes into the conversation that is a Christian and somehow implies the criticisms of the group and its opinions are somehow an effort at censorship when NOTHING OF THE KIND IS HAPPENING. It's perfectly fine for them to voice their opinion, and it's perfectly fine for everyone else to disagree with them and judge them for judging others.

My reply was to MJS who said they needed to STFU. Its ok for him to voice his opinion but the *******S need to STFU?

 

[Master Dan]

What we are talking about here is money from an organizational point. First most denominations are a craft of paid pastoral individuals with some having 3 to 4 genreations in the preaching or the calling so to speak. Bottom line is hate and miss truth is preached from the pulpit why to focus the group on the problem is this person or that group while not focusing on what is really going on hate envy adultry with in the ranks even on church premises. There is a basic need in fundamental or Penticostal groups to make themselves feel better by degrading others the lost the condemned, or the unsaved, you must be cured or burnt so to speak but it all comes down to collections as in O Brother Where Art Thou when he tears the limb off the tree and begins hitting them in the head to steal thier money ( Its all about the money Boys!)

What really gets me is how the sanctimonious bunches while judging others are guilty of so much worse offenses many times and the only way they can look in the mirror is to put someone else down. How many of these women in the million women's group have had affairs other mens babies on and on.

From a money standpoint any group or person has the right to spend thier money where they want and Penney's should have considerd thier market demographics on what it would cost them to advertise that way now its possbile they are courting the gay market and will come out money ahead or did not think? hard to believe and if it does cost them in sales you can be assured they will adjust thier advertising.

Two years ago I loved it when a prominent pastor was busted with a male prositute and he said I am not gay I was just buying Meth Amphetimine a yeh meth and sex go hand in hand sorry no pun intended

 

[granfire]

So why is it OK for you to voice your opinion about the group but its not OK for them to voice their opinion?

Their voiced opinion includes demands on others to alter their behavior.

I mean, how can you tell from a picture that two guys and the boys are a 'gay' couple and their kids? It could be unrelated males, or brothers, or in-laws...

 

[MJS]

What part of the article was hate speech? They said we dont agree with the lifestyle so put refused and return to sender on the catalog and send them back? How is that Hate speech?

Do you really have anything useful to add to the discussion or are you just trolling? Come on man, really? I figured you to be smart enough to see thru the lines here.

IMO, I think this group consists of a bunch of *******s
Hmmm sounds like hate to me.

Umm...yeah, ok.

When did this group say anything about lighting things on fire I missed that in the article?

Please don't put words in my mouth or twist what I say. If you actually read before you posted, you'd have noticed that I was using that as an example, to which I further went on to use, in my example, was the use of protesters, some who act violent, some who're peaceful. Again, I figured you'd be smart enough to see my point, rather than twist my words.

so if you quote the bible your point is no longer valid in your world?

Did I say that..or is that what YOU are reading into it, to attempt to support your posts?? Again, if you actually read my OP, you'd have noticed that I said I am not against religion, however, I do feel that people should not force their beliefs down the throats of others. Just like on the forums...you have people who disagree, yet some do it in a civil fashion, others call names.

and? Thats a tactic used by almost every group put there. No matter what they believe in.

And a stupid one at that. But thats just my opinion. However, whats it proving? Nothing.

ellen should step down her show is crap has nothing to do with her being gay but again so what groups demand people be fired all the time everyone from Rush to Al Sharpton to Bush to Ellen has had some group demand they be fired

Hmm...do they want her to step down because her show is crap...or because she's gay? I'd bet on the latter. Sounds like they have a grudge against gays. But noo...thats not hate..is it?

Not really but It seems you did anyway

Why yes, yes I did. You however...I'm still waiting for a useful, productive post. Are you going to actually make one, or just troll, pick on others, without stating YOUR thoughts?

again so what its a tactic that has worked and all groups do it not just the ******s as you like to refer to them as

Umm...ok

yep no anger or hate in your arguments

You sir and mistaking my 'anger' for hate, when its really disgust. Again, dont twist my words/posts for your benefit.

great Im happy for you shop away its good for the economy

LOL!

Nope I dont aree with them. I believe JC Penny is a private company and they are free to put who ever they want in the catalog. My question was why is it ok for YOU to cry about the *******s but its not Ok for them to cry about JC Penny?

And once again, show me where I said they can't speak their mind. Twist those words baby, twist 'em..LOL. To use my protesting example again....you have people who're upset over the Martin/Zimmerman incident. If people want to protest and raise support for Martin, go right ahead. I've got no issues with that. What I have issues with, is when people take on the Charles Bronson role, and go out and start beating people, almost for payback. That is what I take issue with. I'm sure you know...or not...the difference between peaceful and non peaceful.

 

[MJS]

My reply was to MJS who said they needed to STFU. Its ok for him to voice his opinion but the *******S need to STFU?

My God, you have a nasty habit of twisting things. Do you do this to everyone? Read again. I was raised Catholic. I have things in my religion that others I'm sure, disagree with. Disagree all you want....but no need for you (not YOU ballen0351, just a figure of speech. Wanted to clarify that before you twist something else) to start spewing your religion on me, preaching the Bible. Just like those religious people that come knocking on your door and start going on and on and on. Please dont try to convert me...I'm not interested. I respect your religion, please respect mine, and not try to convert me.