groundwork with guns

[Juany118]

Or just a rack.

First that is assuming they get full control of the firearm back. There is an interesting dynamic that occurs that I have noticed in my Kali training with knives and firearm weapon retention as a LEO. When someone tries to control/take "your" weapon you will instinctively use both hands to maintain it in your control even if you can not clear a malfunction/use it offensively. Your brain basically says "better to keep a grip on this myself than let 'them' take it and turn it against me." This causes you to use both hands on the weapon for control (gross motor function) rather than try to rack against the opponents dual hand control on the slide/frame (fine motor function).

 

[oftheherd1]

Is it a semi auto or a revolver?
Will be different as to specific tactics and when the firearm is dangerous and in what manner it is dangerous.
First control the barrel assuring the muzzle never is pointed toward any part of your body.
If a semi auto and controlling the barrel and slide the firearm can discharge once and then the firearm becomes a blunt object due to having a failure to feed. There will have to be a cycling of the slide and even a removal of the magazine, cycling of the slide, reinstalling the magazine, and then a cycling of the slide once again to make the firearm dischargeable. If a revolver with a external hammer in-order for the weapon to fire besides having a loaded cylinder bore, a couple of things have to happen. One the hammer must be retracted and the cylinder must turn. This happens as the trigger is pulled. So besides keeping the muzzle pointed away from your body parts holding the barrel in a manner that prevents the cylinder from turning the weapon will not fire. However, if there is a live cartridge in the aligned cylinder and barrel And the hammer is cocked the weapon will fire once and then the above becomes true again with the cylinder having to turn. To prevent the discharge of a revolver with a cocked hammer something like a finger, when grasping the revolver must be between the hammer and the firing pin. Will pinch and can be painful but will prevent the discharge as long as it prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin. If a revolver with an internal hammer preventing the cylinder from turning will prevent a discharge.
Either way you are in a very bad situation grappling vs a person with a firearm.

Nothing wrong with the concepts, but if you are going to grab a hand gun, you need to have been practicing your grip strength, a lot. Otherwise, your opponent will have an easier time getting it from your grip, or if it discharges, you are more likely to let it go from the surprise and or the burn of powder.

 

[Danny T]

Average person's grip strength will easily prevent a semi auto slide from ejecting a cartridge. Unless several rounds have been fired barrel will not be so hot as to burn you nor will you get much as far power burns. A revolver again the average person can easily prevent the cylinder from turning however if there is a discharge the possibility of burns from hot gas escaping from around the cylinder is greater that I agree. However it can be done with the likes of a 1st degree sunburn when gripping at the hammer and the loading end to middle of the cylinder. In a fight one may not have that luxury. I'd rather have a burned hand than a new navel in my body or worse.
When my boys were young teenagers both had more than enough strength to grab the slides or cylinders and control them on my 45 & 40 cal, my 9s & and my 38. Could I wrench them out of their hands...at that age yes.

Should one train such...Yes. Should one practice...Yes.
I have trained such...and I do practice.

 

[lklawson]

Average person's grip strength will easily prevent a semi auto slide from ejecting a cartridge. Unless several rounds have been fired barrel will not be so hot as to burn you nor will you get much as far power burns. A revolver again the average person can easily prevent the cylinder from turning however if there is a discharge the possibility of burns from hot gas escaping from around the cylinder is greater that I agree. However it can be done with the likes of a 1st degree sunburn when gripping at the hammer and the loading end to middle of the cylinder. In a fight one may not have that luxury. I'd rather have a burned hand than a new navel in my body or worse.
When my boys were young teenagers both had more than enough strength to grab the slides or cylinders and control them on my 45 & 40 cal, my 9s & and my 38. Could I wrench them out of their hands...at that age yes.

Should one train such...Yes. Should one practice...Yes.
I have trained such...and I do practice.

I agree with most of this. However, be careful about gasses escaping the cylinder gap. That can cause injuries worse than a mere burn. Depending on what it is, it can tear the flesh from the hand.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Runs With Fire]

Be careful about the dude who's trying to blow your brains out.

 

[lklawson]

Be careful about the dude who's trying to blow your brains out.

...water is wet.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[CB Jones]

Be careful about the dude who's trying to blow your brains out.

Pretty sure I'm bulletproof....so no worries.

 

[oftheherd1]

Average person's grip strength will easily prevent a semi auto slide from ejecting a cartridge. Unless several rounds have been fired barrel will not be so hot as to burn you nor will you get much as far power burns. A revolver again the average person can easily prevent the cylinder from turning however if there is a discharge the possibility of burns from hot gas escaping from around the cylinder is greater that I agree. However it can be done with the likes of a 1st degree sunburn when gripping at the hammer and the loading end to middle of the cylinder. In a fight one may not have that luxury. I'd rather have a burned hand than a new navel in my body or worse.
When my boys were young teenagers both had more than enough strength to grab the slides or cylinders and control them on my 45 & 40 cal, my 9s & and my 38. Could I wrench them out of their hands...at that age yes.

Should one train such...Yes. Should one practice...Yes.
I have trained such...and I do practice.

I don't know about you, but my first concern would be slapping/moving the barrel to point somewhere besides being aimed at me. During that process I would hope to grasp the gun, strongly, and not be surprised by gases from the weapon being fired, which is a good possibility if it is a revolver, less so if it is an automatic. For me, even better if the circumstances allow, would be to grab the assailant's wrist, getting the gun pointing away from me, and begin manipulating the wrist and arm to remove the gun from his had and hurt him in the process.

Should one train such...Yes. Should one practice...Yes.
I have trained such...and I do practice.[/

Excellent! That is what I was suggesting. Glad you see the value of that. Hopefully, seeing you advocate that will inspire others to do the same.

 

[Danny T]

I don't know about you, but my first concern would be slapping/moving the barrel to point somewhere besides being aimed at me.

Uhh...Yeah!!
I even stated such in my first statement.

Is it a semi auto or a revolver?
Will be different as to specific tactics and when the firearm is dangerous and in what manner it is dangerous.
First control the barrel assuring the muzzle never is pointed toward any part of your body.

Excellent! That is what I was suggesting. Glad you see the value of that. Hopefully, seeing you advocate that will inspire others to do the same.

Thank you. I see value in continued training and practicing any skill one wants to maintain proficiency in.

 

[CB Jones]

I saw a video of a guy who teaches grasping the gun hand and stepping in and getting control of the elbow which keeps the assailant from being able to pull away. And then disarm.

Can't remember the guys name or find the video though. It looked like a pretty effective technique.

 

[Charlemagne]

Some of us have been doing it for a while.

That's one of the videos I was going to post.

 

[stonewall1350]

Keep the end with the bullet sized hole in it away from you. About all I can think of.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[oftheherd1]

That's one of the videos I was going to post.

I think that is probably the most practical thing I have seen in BJJ. Thanks.

 

[Charlemagne]

I think that is probably the most practical thing I have seen in BJJ. Thanks.

It's practical in general if you are looking at the traditional versus the sportive aspect of it. However, it really is just now starting to take off in the form of weapons grappling in that there are now people with legit weapons training AND legit GJJ training who are exploring this stuff in combination. It's exciting stuff, and I am glad it is happening.