Ground fighting

[Kung Fu Wang]

Chin Na has various ground applications, and perhaps some styles of Shuai Jiao as well. Are these methods comprehensive enough that they are able to deal with any ground fighter of any other martial art, like Sambo, Greco Roman, Judo, BJJ etc?

CMA doesn't have "ground fight". Some stand up locks can be applied to take your opponent all the way down to the ground.

Some throws can be used to set up the ground game nicely. If you have strong "head lock", you can use it in your side mount and make our opponent to tap out.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

It's why so many experienced TMA people get their butts handed to them against an amateur sport fighter that might only have a couple years of training but 10 times the sparring hours logged in their training.

This is why Chinese always believe that "3 years of CMA training cannot match with 1 year of wrestling training". When a CMA guy is working on his form "solo", a wrestler is already working on the mat "with partner".

 

[drop bear]

This is why Chinese always believe that "3 years of CMA training cannot match with 1 year of wrestling training". When a CMA guy is working on his form "solo", a wrestler is already working on the mat "with partner".

Wrestlers also traditionally have the hardest work ethic in any martial arts style.

 

[mograph]

What if they fall over. Do you curb stomp them or let them take the initiative and wait until they get back up?

If escape were an option, I would take advantage of his falling down and run. If escape were not yet an option, standing, I would kick him on the ground until escape became an option.

I don't go to bars, hang around tough neighborhoods, nor do I engage in arguments about sports. I don't seek fights and I'm pretty good at deflecting angry people. I'm fifty-four years old and live a quiet life, so if I were ever to get into that kind of fight, it would probably be a life-and-death situation: no youthful head-butting or kung-fu-skills-proving here. I would try to do whatever it would take to get the hell out of there.

Would I succeed? I don't know. But there's no way I would get down on the ground and get that close to a violent assailant if putting some serious distance between us were an option.

 

[Buka]

Wrestlers also traditionally have the hardest work ethic in any martial arts style.

I think so, too.

 

[ST1Doppelganger]

CMA doesn't have "ground fight". Some stand up locks can be applied to take your opponent all the way down to the ground.

Some throws can be used to set up the ground game nicely. If you have strong "head lock", you can use it in your side mount and make our opponent to tap

Not fully true they have some ground fighting styles like dog style and there was some ground fighting chin na apps back in the day.

It just wasn't practical rolling around on the battle field against people with weapons so thats why they didnt concentrate on it and evolve it. For instance what we all know as the Brazilian guard wasn't realy made by the Brazilians it was a ground chin na position & most likely a ju jitsu position before BJJ took it.

There's even a chin na book from around the 30's with a pic of the guard in it and yes I know BJJ was made and evolved a bit before the 30s.

 

[drop bear]

CMA doesn't have "ground fight". Some stand up locks can be applied to take your opponent all the way down to the ground.

Some throws can be used to set up the ground game nicely. If you have strong "head lock", you can use it in your side mount and make our opponent to tap out.

By the way for those that enjoyed the combat scenario thread and I said they were doing crappy throws.

This is an example of the working version of that.

 

[qianfeng]

This is why Chinese always believe that "3 years of CMA training cannot match with 1 year of wrestling training".

Its not "3 years of CMA training cannot match with 1 year of wrestling training", its “三年拳不如当年摔" meaning one year of fist fighting cannot match a year of wrestling not CMA is not match to wrestling.

 

[wingchun100]

A significant portion of the criticism of those who challenge Chinese martial arts, is "how are all those fancy moves gonna help you when you're on the ground"?

But I know that Chin Na has various ground applications, and perhaps some styles of Shuai Jiao as well. Are these methods comprehensive enough that they are able to deal with any ground fighter of any other martial art, like Sambo, Greco Roman, Judo, BJJ etc?

Chin Na has to do with joint locks, not necessarily grappling. The best defense against grappling is to keep them out of grappling range.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The best defense against grappling is to keep them out of grappling range.

This is very difficult to do. When you attack your opponent, you have to move in. If you just keep moving back, soon or later you will lose your courage to fight.

 

[wingchun100]

That is what you train to do though. If I train as a boxer, I want to stay in punching range. If I do tae kwon do, I want to stay in kicking range. Wing chun fits in somewhere right between the punching and grappling range. So you are always training to stay in YOUR comfortable fighting range, which may very well mean keeping them OUT of theirs...unless of course they train in the same or similar style.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Since it very difficult to maintain in certain range, we should train in all ranges. We should not have any weakness in certain range.

 

[wingchun100]

Maybe so, but the majority of people train in one range. Therefore, they train to maintain that range.

 

[mograph]

Isn't a good strategy to move in, but not to stay in?

(Just asking.)

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Isn't a good strategy to move in, but not to stay in?

(Just asking.)

When you move in, if your opponent puts a "fishing hook" on your body, when you move back, you will pull your opponent with you. IMO, to "move in" but "not to stay in" just contradict to itself. It's like you want to have relationship with a girl but you don't want to marry her. Sometime it's not up to you but it's up to her. When she has your baby, you are "hooked".

 

[ST1Doppelganger]

Maybe so, but the majority of people train in one range. Therefore, they train to maintain that range.

Actually traditional martial artist are a dying breed and most adults are now taking some type of MMA kick boxing or grappling.

MMA covers most of the ranges that exist, kick boxing covers the striking and then has the clinch & keeping an experienced grappler from shooting is easier said then done.

Sadly if you encounter another martial artist on the street that is attacking you this is most likely what your going to be going up against.

If you don't train in all ranges your going to get caught with your pants down and be wondering how this happened when you regain consciousness IMHO.

 

[blindsage]

Chin Na has to do with joint locks, not necessarily grappling. The best defense against grappling is to keep them out of grappling range.

Joint locks are part of grappling, they are not separate things.

 

[Buka]

Isn't a good strategy to move in, but not to stay in?

(Just asking.)

It depends on what you got. We used to call being on the inside as "in his kitchen". If you know how to work in the kitchen, you stay there and completely ruin his day. If you don't know how to work there, what the hell are you doing in the kitchen?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Joint locks are part of grappling, they are not separate things.

The term "grappling" is not very clear. Some people use it as "ground game only". Some people use it as "stand up throw + stand up lock + ground game".

 

[drop bear]

This is very difficult to do. When you attack your opponent, you have to move in. If you just keep moving back, soon or later you will lose your courage to fight.

And it is not correct anyway. The best defence against grappling is grappling.