Great article on the structure of Parker Kenpo

[kenpo3631]

Kenpo Article

Hey all, check this out...I find it very informative on the structure of Parker System of Kenpo. Read the post script too, very creditable sources I think.

Thanks to Ingmar Johannsen's website for the article

 

[tarabos]

thanks....i enjoyed the article....:asian:

 

[Kirk]

It is a good article. I suspect some will have problems with it, but
hey, it wouldn't be a kenpo article without it, huh?

 

[Iron Dog]

You're right, it's a good article, but I'm a bit confused. According to the Journey, which I just purchased in Seattle, Tom Kelly and Richard Planas were students of Steve Labounty, who introduced them to Mr. Parker. Is this right? The purpose of me asking is that it seems there is a move to make all of the Kenpo history accurate and there is a lot of who is a tenth, who isn't, who trained with who and so on. I like anyone else want to have a history that is as complete as possible and as correct as possible. I know that will be difficult totally, but the names of these men seem to be respected by all and that's good enough for me, but it's important (to me anyway) that I can point to a history that is undeniable.
Still it's a good article which I have printed out to put in my training manual.
Can anyone help with this?
Thanks,
I.D.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Iron Dog
You're right, it's a good article, but I'm a bit confused. According to the Journey, which I just purchased in Seattle, Tom Kelly and Richard Planas were students of Steve Labounty, who introduced them to Mr. Parker. Is this right? The purpose of me asking is that it seems there is a move to make all of the Kenpo history accurate and there is a lot of who is a tenth, who isn't, who trained with who and so on. I like anyone else want to have a history that is as complete as possible and as correct as possible. I know that will be difficult totally, but the names of these men seem to be respected by all and that's good enough for me, but it's important (to me anyway) that I can point to a history that is undeniable.
Still it's a good article which I have printed out to put in my training manual.
Can anyone help with this?
Thanks,
I.D.

I'm no historian, and one day with Huk a LOT of info was coming
at me at once, so PLEASE bear this in mind. My understanding
is that LaBounty was teaching Sibok Kelly when Huk showed up
and started taking lessons. Mr Kelly left to El Paso, before Huk
made it to black, he asked Huk to work with him at that school.
I don't know the events in the school, but eventually Mr Kelly and
Huk were writing the manuals for Mr Parker, and Mr Kelly said to
Mr Parker, "don't you think there's something wrong with the fact
that a brown belt is writing the manuals?". Mr Parker said yes,
and walked out .. then shortly returned and "threw a black belt
at" Huk.

 

[jeffkyle]

Originally posted by Kirk
I'm no historian, and one day with Huk a LOT of info was coming
at me at once, so PLEASE bear this in mind. My understanding
is that LaBounty was teaching Sibok Kelly when Huk showed up
and started taking lessons. Mr Kelly left to El Paso, before Huk
made it to black, he asked Huk to work with him at that school.
I don't know the events in the school, but eventually Mr Kelly and
Huk were writing the manuals for Mr Parker, and Mr Kelly said to
Mr Parker, "don't you think there's something wrong with the fact
that a brown belt is writing the manuals?". Mr Parker said yes,
and walked out .. then shortly returned and "threw a black belt
at" Huk.

I was not aware of that story! Very interesting!

 

[Iron Dog]

Thank you sir, that IS interesting...
I.D.

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by Kirk
It is a good article. I suspect some will have problems with it, but
hey, it wouldn't be a kenpo article without it, huh?

How true, how true!:asian:

 

[Wes Idol]

I do not know Mr. Johansson personally, but certainly applaud the writer for gathering resources and taking the time to construct this piece. With that said, these are my problems with the article.

1. The claim that the last version of Parker's techs (by Parker himself) were completed in 1985 is incorrect. Between 1987 and the end of 1990, Parker worked to produce his final versions with Bryan Hawkins as one of his main sounding-board-students.

2. Parker created the endings and revised them. Among other lessons they teach...
a) new timing.
b) new foot maneuvers.
c) new take downs and ways to break limbs.
It's unfortunate that some still choose to speak so badly about lessons that Parker himself left in the system. Parker was not above dumping sets and techs that he believed didn't serve, i.e. Tiger and Crane, Intellectual Departure, Aggressive Twins and Spreading Branch (the three yellow techs that the article claimed were worth saving).

(this next issue could simply be wording)
3. The article claims that "after Parker's death there were discussions of cutting down to 16 techniques, (an idea that Parker had earlier)." Actually discussions on this issue were had by Parker with many of his black belts...so this was not just an idea he had.

My final challenge is the tone of Parker only wanting to create a "franchising like McDonald's." McDonald's is a franchise, but so is the Four Seasons Hotels, or Porsche dealerships. Why must we compare and contrast Parker's work to the spreading of a low end, fast food chain? What's wrong with Parker wanted to support his family by teaching his passion?...or...Parker wanted others to experience what he has and make Kenpo a known American term?

Beyond my own opinion, I still feel it important to honor the work done. Ingmar Johansson has taken valuable time and energy to put together research and thoughts out to the public. I salute Mr. Johansson on the support of our system and culture.

Respectfully,

WI, HI
UKS

 

[Kirk]

Wes, hopefully we can discuss this without others jumping in and
dumping some embers, so let me ask ya a couple questions and
comments.

Originally posted by Wes Idol
2. Parker created the endings and revised them. Among other lessons they teach...
a) new timing.
b) new foot maneuvers.
c) new take downs and ways to break limbs.

Do you mean the extensions that Mr Johansson doesn't teach?

Originally posted by Wes Idol
It's unfortunate that some still choose to speak so badly about lessons that Parker himself left in the system. Parker was not above dumping sets and techs that he believed didn't serve, i.e. Tiger and Crane, Intellectual Departure, Aggressive Twins and Spreading Branch (the three yellow techs that the article claimed were worth saving).

Only with regards to Intellectual Departure, the story that I heard
was that it was taken out of the yellow belt curriculum, because
Mr Parker felt it was too advanced for a white belt student to
learn. No idea on the validity of that, I can't even remember
where I heard it.

Originally posted by Wes Idol
My final challenge is the tone of Parker only wanting to create a "franchising like McDonald's." McDonald's is a franchise, but so is the Four Seasons Hotels, or Porsche dealerships. Why must we compare and contrast Parker's work to the spreading of a low end, fast food chain?

It might not be viewed with the same negativity in Sweden,
where the author is from.

Originally posted by Wes Idol
What's wrong with Parker wanted to support his family by teaching his passion?...or...Parker wanted others to experience what he has and make Kenpo a known American term?

I didn't get that tone at all from the article. I kind of got it as
Mr Parker had this great knowledge that he wanted to share with
as many people as he could, and make a living doing it.

 

[XtremeJ_AKKI]

Originally posted by Kirk
I'm no historian, and one day with Huk a LOT of info was coming at me at once, so PLEASE bear this in mind. My understanding is that LaBounty was teaching Sibok Kelly when Huk showed up and started taking lessons. Mr Kelly left to El Paso, before Huk made it to black, he asked Huk to work with him at that school. I don't know the events in the school, but eventually Mr Kelly and Huk were writing the manuals for Mr Parker, and Mr Kelly said to Mr Parker, "don't you think there's something wrong with the fact that a brown belt is writing the manuals?". Mr Parker said yes, and walked out .. then shortly returned and "threw a black belt at" Huk.

According to Mr. Planas' submission to ' The Journey ', he was told by Mr. Parker that he'd be tested for black belt ' next week ', and was tested for it two days later. No mention of a ' flying promotion. '

 

[Wes Idol]

Originally posted by Kirk
Do you mean the extensions that Mr Johansson doesn't teach?

Yes I am. They are refered to as the Endings or Extentions.

Originally posted by Kirk
Only with regards to Intellectual Departure, the story that I heard was that it was taken out of the yellow belt curriculum, because Mr Parker felt it was too advanced for a white belt student to learn. No idea on the validity of that, I can't even remember where I heard it.

Then why didn't it show up at a higher rank? BTW, I've done these techs and I do see value in them.

Originally posted by Kirk
t might not be viewed with the same negativity in Sweden,
where the author is from.

Guessing that you and I have never lived there, you've brought up a good point. I also make this assumption because all of his sources are American...but still, he may not know.

Originally posted by Kirk
I didn't get that tone at all from the article. I kind of got it as
Mr Parker had this great knowledge that he wanted to share with
as many people as he could, and make a living doing it.

Once again, I do not know the writer, but some of the claims I have heard before. I certainly honor your opinion. It's also possible that I'm a little sensitive to the subject...that I will own.

Respectfully,

WI, HI
UKS

 

[jfarnsworth]

I thought it was a good article.

 

[rmcrobertson]

I'm afraid I thought it more an ad than an article. For one thing, I'd like to see a lot better documentation of sources, references, and claims--it's probably just an academic tic, but I was taught that footnotes are essential to a) keep us honest, b) provide readers with the same material to which we had access.

I notice, too, that this discussion of the, "structure of kenpo," fairly quickly moves on to a) dismiss the extensions, b) advocate a 16-tech system. I would've very much liked to have seen more than "because that's what we do, and it works," given as reasons for these amendments.

I'd love to see a real discussion of the structure of kenpo, and I thought the run-through of history pretty good-certainly nothing that would contradict what I've been taught, but pretty darn good.

But I also think that the extension are essential to understanding the structure of kenpo.

 

[kenpo3631]

Some of the discussions in the article are some of the same I've had with Mr. Planas, Trejo and Wedlake.

I personally know and can teach the extensions from the 24 Technique system, however some time ago I chose not to continue with that methodology. I found that there is way too much to learn and absorb just with the base system itself.

The discussions about the 16 technique system back in the early eighties were just that ~ discussions. It wasn't until a couple of years before Mr. Parker's death did the 16 Technique system "officially" get accepted, is this not true?

The reference to McDonald's...Mr. Idol have you ever read the book by Michael Gerber titled the E-Myth ? It refers to the "turn-key" franchise. Using the McDonald's franchise as a business model to replicate the same results over and over. It might be a book you can look into purchasing.

I don't feel that it is an "ad" for his school but (just stating from what I consider "reputable" sources), a simple observation of how the system was developed from a few of the people who where there and those that were considered close to Mr. Parker.

:asian:

 

[jaybacca72]

i known ingmar quite well and he and i are like brothers,the article was a good one and i can tell you his resources are very creditable.we meaning ingmar and myself being from CANADA and him fromSWEDEN call it Ed Parkers kenpo not American kenpo because it has become more than just American since it's creation.
later
jay
i would write more but iam tired from work
once again nice work inger call me:asian:

 

[kenpo3631]

we meaning ingmar and myself being from CANADA and him fromSWEDEN call it Ed Parkers kenpo not American kenpo because it has become more than just American since it's creation.

Jay,
Point well said:asian: