You posted the video with the title "Great Aikido video." What makes this video "great?" I am asking you, because its your thread title and you picked this video... I didn't find anything much different than I see in any of the other aikido videos or TMA videos... Why did you pick this one?
Great Aikido video
- Thread starter Mider
- Start date
I posted it as it’s an aikido video in the aikido section
But what was the purpose?
Martial D
Senior Master
On the one hand..the mechanics of that wristlock takedown are legit.
On the other hand...the thing about these types of videos is you get more from them by watching the uke.
With that said the next time someone waggles their finger in my face..which would also be the first time? But..whatever..if that happens I'll grab his wrist and if he happens to go limp and not resist at all like uke did maybe I'll give it a try.
On the other hand...the thing about these types of videos is you get more from them by watching the uke.
With that said the next time someone waggles their finger in my face..which would also be the first time? But..whatever..if that happens I'll grab his wrist and if he happens to go limp and not resist at all like uke did maybe I'll give it a try.
Oily Dragon
Senior Master
It's not a video of effective chin na unless the other guy is doing something other than playing along. So whether it's cast as a judo, aikido, Kung Fu, whatever video, it's only ho hum.
Don't get me wrong man, I love Aikido, and I have no gripes with this guy, other than his video is not really anything special. He just has a habit of fire hosing YouTube with these sorts of flamboyant videos, which I put next to the "this is for pro wrestling" pile vs. "this is chin na for small joint manipulation against a resisting opponent" pile.
You'd think someone with a fight record would have no problem showing a decent short demo of him grip grappling his student with aliveness. That's why I'm disappointed with the "great" part, I like my Kung Fu grip videos with aliveness.
Instead, we got a lesson in the proper finger pointing range for pre-emptive bouncer attack. Which is great advice if you're an aspiring door man I guess.
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Oily Dragon
Senior Master
You and I are on the same page.
Ok, you're an ex bouncer/knight/SEAL.
Ok, you know some wrist Fu.
Great, you've got full contact experience. You're on fire dawg!
But don't do that thing where you try to validate a whole art (that doesn't need validation) by having your student gift you their wrist, and look downright defeated the moment your inner Glimmer Man comes out.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Help me out here... What makes his version any different to the wrist locks shown in Japanese Jujitsu, Aikido, Karate and all the rest? What makes his more functional than the others?
Besides his batman shirt...
What makes it different? A lot. What makes it more functional? It isn't. There are myriad issues with this, starting with the fact that, well, it's all pretty bad, and not demonstrative of anything other than Dan' ego.
But is this an example of that? Here's a clue... the answer is "no".
Meh... maybe he should have studied more?
I think his point was that the video is a sub-optimal example of a wrist lock done in a way that is completely devoid of any of the principles that would make it Aikido, or, indeed, separate it as anything particularly distinct from just "grab the wrist and turn".
Yep. And, to be clear, the way he's doing it is much closer to the way my arts approach this type of kansetsu waza than it is an Aikido method... so I can see if he's got the important points present. He doesn't.
Ooh, that'll lead you down a path you may not want to go if you ask me the same...
Between this example and Aikido? Or between the various approaches @wab25 mentioned? Cause there's a fair few clarifications that would need to happen, especially in the case of the latter... such as which system of Japanese jujutsu... but, well, yeah. I could.
In Aikido? As that is ostensibly the subject/context here?
Wab25 already gave you a lot of things that are wrong in the execution (which you had already seen before asking if he can tell you what's wrong with the technique...?), so I'll just focus on one thing. There is no Aikido in that video.
I mean, I can also discuss how his mechanics are off, he doesn't understand why that particular grip is used (his "hand slipping" just shows that he doesn't understand the actual hand positioning in Aikido's kotegaeshi, the one used here, with both thumbs on the back of the hand, is to help open the hand, and release a weapon, not anything like his comments), and more, but, most importantly, there is no Aikido in that video. At all.
Reading his comments on his videos, that would prove unenlightening.
Except it's not an Aikido video, no matter what Dan chooses to call it. There's no aiki. There's muscular effort, tension, and a number of aspects that are antithetical to Aikido... but more importantly, a complete lack of aiki. Aiki happens when the momentum of an incoming attack is blended with and extended/redirected in order to unbalance and control the opponent. The "attacker" there is completely static, so there's no momentum to blend with, just overt force to grab. There's no redirection or unbalancing, and the mechanics are not an Aikido kotegaeshi (which involves securing the forearm at the base of the wrist with one hand, using the other to "fold" the hand over the wrist itself... not a high capture on the hand, and then "slipping" off over the top, as Dan demonstrates as the problem he has with the Aikido version... well, perhaps if he actually did the correct thing, he would see that's not an issue?).
So, what are the problems? It's someone who thinks that "wrist lock = Aikido", when that's the belief of an inexperienced beginner or someone without any understanding or clue about Aikido itself... someone who thinks superficial, broad, technical categories are what separates or defines a martial art. Aikido is not wrist locks. Wrist locks aren't Aikido. And these are not worthy of being called "Great Aikido" by a long shot... they aren't worthy of being called "Aikido"... I don't think I'd even call them worthy of being called "wrist locks" in anything other than the broadest of definitions. If anyone other than my absolute beginners did a lock like this, I'd be asking some questions...
jayoliver00
Black Belt
He's been trying to get in on the Youtube racket by attacking the more popular (but smaller & weaker) Youtube MA guys such as Hard2Hit, Roka, etc.
Roka was dumb enough to bite and give him a platform; he couldn't be more happier and went from disgusted at Roka to super nice. Dude's out to make a buck.
It can be more functional if the following principles are added in.
1. Borrow his opponent's force - He can use a shoulder lock first. When his opponent resists, he can then borrow his opponent's resisting force, change his shoulder lock into a wrist lock.
2. Add in leg skill - When he applies the wrist lock, he can use his leg skill to "cut" his opponent's leg and takes his opponent down.
The locking skill is similar to the throwing skill. It's better to apply in pairs. Most of the time, the 1st technique won't work well. But the 2nd technique may work better (I'm pretty sure this principle is used in Aikido). Also the purpose of joint locking is to take your opponent down. You should use your leg to take your opponent's leg/legs off the ground (not sure this principle is used in Aikido or not).
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It’s great as he’s used it under pressure
If you say so...I’ve seen him use it in sparring, sounds like we are just jumping on the let’s nit pick the video
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Yeah. But he is a big dude. I jave seen untrained big guys use that technique.
I have a mate who benches 150kg he wrist locks you. You get wrist locked.
Compare that to say the Russian wrist snap that relies on creating an environment where the wrist throw will work. Rather than just manhandling an arm.
This is a more viable concept if you don't have the strength advantage.
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Does Aikido use leg skill in throwing?
There are a lot of bits in that video. And no aiki, by either of the definitions I know for it (blending and body mechanics).
Can you define “leg skill” for me?
You use your leg to attack your opponent's leg to make him off balance.
Here is a leg skill - inner hook.
Gotcha. I have never seen that approach in (Ueshiba’s) Aikido. NGA has them from our Judo side.You use your leg to attack your opponent's leg to make him off balance.
Here is a leg skill - inner hook.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
So... you put up a video, claiming it's a "great Aikido video", when questioned on it, you say "I'm not an expert", but then think that people offering supported critique are "nit-picking"? Hmm...
But, to take your comment at it's face value, you've seen him use (this wrist lock) in sparring? And what, precisely, does that prove? Does it make it any more Aikido? Nope. Does it remove the issues with it? Nope. All it says is that he used in in a sparring match at least once... against who? In what context? These things matter.
Let's be clear here... using it in "sparring" without any other context means nothing. And "using it in sparring" doesn't magically make it Aikido, when there is no AIki present. It's a wrist lock/twist. It's pretty universal to all grappling methods and approaches, and even a poor one, coupled with overwhelming strength, luck, or a poor opponent can be pretty effective. A bad technique can work, and still be a bad technique.
Taiji Rebel
Black Belt
Gozo Shioda used to say atemi is 70% of Aikido, whereas Morihiro Saito thought atemi was 90% - think about those figures in relation to these videos.
Aikido has it use in combat, but I think a pre-emptive strike is the most effective method in 70-90% percent of cases.
Aikido has it use in combat, but I think a pre-emptive strike is the most effective method in 70-90% percent of cases.
