GPS Trackers

[Zero]

What's a gps tracker in a fridge going to do? That's a new one on me.

Apparently you can get fridges now with temperature monitors that advise you on your mobile etc of temperature and you can control remotely and adjust temp. (seems weird to me, can understand controlling your home heating so it clicks on when you heading home from office but a fridge has me beat), they also contain gps chips - why I am not sure. I heard they are working on a fridge that senses if the milk or egg tray is empty or running low and prompts you to purchase replacements also. Soon we humans won't have to think at all and will have our lives run by our fridges (although if a fridge could remind you to buy flowers for the wife's birthday, that could be a good thing...), this is supposedly called evolution...


[/QUOTE]I don't get it. I asked Transk53, but if you have some insight, I'd love to hear it. I can kind of see resenting being micromanaged. But I've worked for many micromanagers, and while annoying, it's not anything I would take a principled stand over. I mean, work is where you're being paid for your time. If I'm paying you for 8 hours of your time, why shouldn't you be fully accountable for every minute of that time?[/QUOTE]

Well, generally with that example you're technically paid for 7 hours a day and get an hour for lunch which is unpaid. If you wanted to go to some Cat-House on your lunch break I could see why it would bug you if your employer knows where you are for every minute of the day. For the paid component of the working day, I get your point and I see how it could be beneficial if you were a LEO or in security or where you may be in harms way potentially on a regular basis. But on a general mainstream employment basis I don't necessarily agree with you. Just as an example, as a lawyer, I don't see the need for my employers or clients knowing exactly where I am all the time as long as I get the job done and done well. Why do you need to know if I am doing my drafting in the office, in the diner or in the can?

More importantly, why did you change your avatar, the pooch is great but didn't you have some kid up there before which I assumed was yours?

 

[Zero]

Hmmm, now I am struggling with the quote option on this new set-up

 

[Transk53]

Hmmm, now I am struggling with the quote option on this new set-up

You have to do it manually right.

 

[Transk53]

What I don't understand is why this is a problem. Can you help me understand what your actual objections to GPS tracking are and why you think it is a bad thing?

Edit: Just to be more clear, so far it seems that you have two arguments against:

1: It's spying on you.
2: It's unnecessary.

So, let's presume both are true. Your employer wants to spy on you. Why shouldn't they? Help me to better understand why your employer should not do whatever they can to best account for your time? I can't think of any administrative or legal reason why not. The only thing I can think of is that it could (possibly) imply a lack of trust, which might lead to some practical issues of attrition and/or employee engagement.

Whether it's unnecessary or not is really quite beside the point. I mean, if it's unnecessary, so what? There's a huge difference between saying that management should do something, and management can do something.

I guess what I'm wondering is what your real concern is and what you hope to accomplish.

Yes it would be from you're perspective, that being the reply. Yes it would be about spying. Why do you believe that is okay?

 

[Steve]

Yes it would be from you're perspective, that being the reply. Yes it would be about spying. Why do you believe that is okay?

I think it's okay if I'm paying you for your time. In your job, you are essentially being retained, and as the boss, they are not just allowed, but IMO obligated to account for how they are spending their money on you. Frankly, as a manager, any reluctance to be held accountable for your time would make me want to ask more questions about why. I mean, if you're on the clock, why would you have a problem with my knowing your exact whereabouts?

It would be different if you were rendering a service based on a deadline. If I'm just paying you for a result, I don't care how you manage your time provided you meet a deadline. For example, if I pay you to mow my lawn twice a month, I don't care how long it takes you, provided it's done timely. Your situation doesn't sound like that, however.

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[Steve]

Apparently you can get fridges now with temperature monitors that advise you on your mobile etc of temperature and you can control remotely and adjust temp. (seems weird to me, can understand controlling your home heating so it clicks on when you heading home from office but a fridge has me beat), they also contain gps chips - why I am not sure. I heard they are working on a fridge that senses if the milk or egg tray is empty or running low and prompts you to purchase replacements also. Soon we humans won't have to think at all and will have our lives run by our fridges (although if a fridge could remind you to buy flowers for the wife's birthday, that could be a good thing...), this is supposedly called evolution...

I don't get it. I asked Transk53, but if you have some insight, I'd love to hear it. I can kind of see resenting being micromanaged. But I've worked for many micromanagers, and while annoying, it's not anything I would take a principled stand over. I mean, work is where you're being paid for your time. If I'm paying you for 8 hours of your time, why shouldn't you be fully accountable for every minute of that time?

Well, generally with that example you're technically paid for 7 hours a day and get an hour for lunch which is unpaid. If you wanted to go to some Cat-House on your lunch break I could see why it would bug you if your employer knows where you are for every minute of the day. For the paid component of the working day, I get your point and I see how it could be beneficial if you were a LEO or in security or where you may be in harms way potentially on a regular basis. But on a general mainstream employment basis I don't necessarily agree with you. Just as an example, as a lawyer, I don't see the need for my employers or clients knowing exactly where I am all the time as long as I get the job done and done well. Why do you need to know if I am doing my drafting in the office, in the diner or in the can?

More importantly, why did you change your avatar, the pooch is great but didn't you have some kid up there before which I assumed was yours?

Here in the USA, full time is often 8 hours paid and an unpaid, 30 minute meal break. So a work day is typically 8 1/2 hours. Of course, this will vary a bit from employer to employer.

Regarding the rest, the level of oversight tends to go down the higher up the professional food chain one sits. But, at least in the USA, lawyers often track billable hours to account for their time.

Ultimately, If one is being retained and not paid for services, time is being accounted for in some manner. The easiest and most direct manner is to be visually directing an employee on site. In other words, I (the manager) am watching you (the employee) do what you're supposed to be doing. Absent this, as an employer, I'm going to do what I can to ensure you are doing what you should.


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[Zero]

Don't worry, those good ol' recorded billable hours are pretty much world wide. But that in itself is fine as it is the way the bills are generated and justified (or not) to clients, it is showing the client just what they are paying for but I could be logging those hours from home or via a laptop in a tree house. It seems a tad more invasive to actually have gps positioning on a fella (unless it's purely for safety reasons).

I'm no crook, honest, but if an employer asked to take my finger prints to hold on file for such and such a reason I would have an issue with that, even though I have no intention of becoming a crook in the near to medium future. When I started off working in a bank years back, when I was a teller some dude tried to pass a forged cheque that I spotted. He legged it before the cops got there. To try to track him down they lifted prints from the cheque. To know which were his they wanted to eliminate my prints by taking a copy of my own. Even though they assured me they would be destroyed afterwards and not entered into any data base I had great issue with that. I don't want my prints on any database but again, I don't intend on getting into cat-burglary or international assassination anytime soon so why should I worry.

 

[Steve]

i may not be clear. We aren't indentured servants. if people have an issue with how they are being managed, provided management is legal and within the contract, they have two viable choices. They can suck it up, stop complaining and do their job, or they can quit. A third option could be to lobby congress to change the law (or whatever the equivalent is in the uk). But that's kind of a stretch.

I'm not saying you have to be okay with it. I'm just saying I completely understand why management would want to know where their employees are while on the clock. And the more employees complain about it, the more certain I would be that they are doing things they know they shouldn't while on company time. Franky, this seems like the reaction of employees who know that they've been getting away with something and resent being reset to reasonable standards of accountability. We aren't entitled to a job.

 

[ballen0351]

Yes it would be from you're perspective, that being the reply. Yes it would be about spying. Why do you believe that is okay?

Its not spying if your on their dime.

 

[Zero]

We aren't entitled to a job.

I agree, my take is that we aren't entitled to anything from anyone (well, maybe universal love would be nice). Too much self-entitlement these days, no one hands you a book when you are born stating you have a right to tax funded benefits and free accommodation...but there it all is... sorry, this may be too political for here, you've gone and lead me off track : )

 

[Zero]

A third option could be to lobby congress to change the law (or whatever the equivalent is in the uk).

Hey, we got the "law" here in the UK too, not just some equivalent! : )

 

[Transk53]

Look guys, at the end of day, accountability does not require a GPS tracker. This maybe a little naive of me, but that trust has to be there. Still though, there is only one use for it. Perhaps I should not have posted this in the first place. What I wanted was members own experiences with them and in what use. Not some thread that is going to go political, because that is just boring.

 

[Zero]

Sorry, I don't know how it got to this.

 

[Transk53]

Don't worry about it, it was just a general comment regarding the thread, not against any of you lot. Although I could say more, but it would be somewhat counter productive

 

[ballen0351]

Look guys, at the end of day, accountability does not require a GPS tracker. This maybe a little naive of me, but that trust has to be there. Still though, there is only one use for it. Perhaps I should not have posted this in the first place. What I wanted was members own experiences with them and in what use. Not some thread that is going to go political, because that is just boring.

And you got the answer. I use them and I don't care. It doesn't bother me at all. I don't know why it bothers you. In the end as Steve said your choices are limited. Wear it , quit, or change policy not necessarily laws but within your job. Go to the bosses tell them your feelings and hope they reconsider. I've fought to change policy I disagree with 9 times out of 10 I loose and I'm back to the 1st two choices deal with it or quit.

 

[Steve]

Look guys, at the end of day, accountability does not require a GPS tracker. This maybe a little naive of me, but that trust has to be there. Still though, there is only one use for it. Perhaps I should not have posted this in the first place. What I wanted was members own experiences with them and in what use. Not some thread that is going to go political, because that is just boring.

You're absolutely right. A GPS isn't the only way to hold employee's accountable for their time, but it sure can help in some situations. Businesses restrict internet access, require employees to punch a time clock, track network traffic, physically watch employees work, and account for employee time and productivity in a gazillion different ways. Tracking your whereabouts via GPS is just one. In my opinion, no more or less draconian than a time clock.

And trust doesn't HAVE to be there. It's nice when management can trust employees, but that's not always the case. But what's interesting to me is you seem to think that trust goes one way only. You want management to trust you, but you seem awfully suspicious of your management team. If there is a trust issue, it appears to me that it goes both ways in your shop.

Regarding how we got here, you asked a question and, after giving it a little thought, I asked some questions, which led us here. I am not sure what you think is political about this. I'm just trying to share my opinions and hope that they help you in your job. As I said, your reaction to this GPS thing raises some red flags for me. Maybe it's cultural, or generational, I don't know. But when my employees feel like they're doing me a favor by being at work, they're due a reality check. I honestly don't understand what's political about that.

 

[Transk53]

And you got the answer. I use them and I don't care. It doesn't bother me at all. I don't know why it bothers you. In the end as Steve said your choices are limited. Wear it , quit, or change policy not necessarily laws but within your job. Go to the bosses tell them your feelings and hope they reconsider. I've fought to change policy I disagree with 9 times out of 10 I loose and I'm back to the 1st two choices deal with it or quit.

Yes but you are a police officer are you not. For you the game is a little different! Why does it bother me. Well, it goes a little something like this. It means we lose accountability, we have to step out from our cover and start doing the job as robots. That is what I do not like and I'll be fighting like hell to get my point across.

 

[ballen0351]

Yes but you are a police officer are you not. For you the game is a little different! Why does it bother me. Well, it goes a little something like this. It means we lose accountability, we have to step out from our cover and start doing the job as robots. That is what I do not like and I'll be fighting like hell to get my point across.

So your upset your going to have to start actually working? Well that's probably why the company wants GPS

 

[Transk53]

You're absolutely right. A GPS isn't the only way to hold employee's accountable for their time, but it sure can help in some situations. Businesses restrict internet access, require employees to punch a time clock, track network traffic, physically watch employees work, and account for employee time and productivity in a gazillion different ways. Tracking your whereabouts via GPS is just one. In my opinion, no more or less draconian than a time clock.

And trust doesn't HAVE to be there. It's nice when management can trust employees, but that's not always the case. But what's interesting to me is you seem to think that trust goes one way only. You want management to trust you, but you seem awfully suspicious of your management team. If there is a trust issue, it appears to me that it goes both ways in your shop.

Regarding how we got here, you asked a question and, after giving it a little thought, I asked some questions, which led us here. I am not sure what you think is political about this. I'm just trying to share my opinions and hope that they help you in your job. As I said, your reaction to this GPS thing raises some red flags for me. Maybe it's cultural, or generational, I don't know. But when my employees feel like they're doing me a favor by being at work, they're due a reality check. I honestly don't understand what's political about that.

Look it is quite simple, I understand the environment of which I work. Perhaps I jumped the gun when citing political, for that I would apologise for the confusion. However, the fact remains that in the context of our job, it is not needed. I don't know, call it an English attitude towards all things that piss me off!!

 

[Transk53]

So your upset your going to have to start actually working? Well that's probably why the company wants GPS

Hey please keep it polite, that is just a baited response. We do work!!