Goose Egg treatment (non head)

[TSDTexan]

So in a really vigorous sparing session with one of my browns... We aerially connected shin on shin. (Both of us threw jumping roundhouses simultaneously)

Having done shin to shin in this exact situation before, and knowing what could go wrong... I did something new.

I was trying to avoid either one of us breaking our tibia, I rotated my leg (big toe and knee from horizontal into vertical) just before impact. I would rather it be me rather then my student with a broken leg.

It worked, sort of. Instead of taking it in the meat of the calf like I had hoped for... I took it just below, on the medial side of the tibia of my left leg.

Well, the good news. No broken tibias. He was in pain, I wasn't. He had a minor surface abrasion, minimal swelling and redness and for him time tested tiger balm was my recommended course.

But instantly I felt my periosteum and surrounding tissues over the tibia begin to swell with blood and other fluid from minor vessel bleeding.

It has swollen quite large. As if I shoved a hackie sack under my skin.


Now I have already started R. I. C. E. And I had the swelling down considerably, right up until I walked into my kitchen for a drink.

But I wondered if anyone with similar injury to shins, here at MT, have tried anything and I mean ANYTHING... That worked.

Specifically, that was traditional eastern, non allopathic that worked.

Be it reiki, or acupuncture or who knows what.

I am willing to drain it via syringe and pump at my GP, but that's my last resort.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I use Dit Da Jow. It is the recommended treatment for chinese martial art practitioners. Other than that the treatment that you have given is the correct one even though modern medicine as now recommended not to ice because it decreases blood flow and slows healing. Dit Da Jow reduces swelling, stops pain, and allows the bruise to heal faster.
If you don't have Dit Da Jow then ice is what I would use on myself. You can read here about Dit Da Jow

There's shouldn't be a need to drain it. Your body will just absorb it. The lump will be there for a while depending on how deep the bruise is.

 

[Danny T]

For what it worth:

-From an article in the American Journal of Sports Medicine;

A new acronym, MCE, replaces RICE, the standard since 1978, and leaves out most of the cold therapy for injury treatment.

MCE - Move safely when you can as much as you can, Compress, and Elevate.

While ice or cold therapy reduces inflammation it is now known that inflammation is the body’s first physical response to repairing tissue, and without it healing does not happen. Applying ice causes blood vessels around the injury to constrict and shut off the blood flow that brings in the inflammatory cells needed for healing. The vessels do not open again for hours after the ice is applied. In addition, the ice reduces pain, which is an alert to avoid motion that may be harmful.

Data from studies on the influence of icing on muscle damage show that icing delays recovery and should not be the first choice of treatment for injuries. After icing there was an immediate increase in swelling and indicators of muscle damage actually increased after application of ice. Applying ice causes blood vessels around the injury to constrict and shut off the blood flow that brings in the inflammatory cells needed for healing.

Research published inThe American Journal of Sports Medicine in June, 2013, show that although icing an injury relieved swelling it did not make recovery from muscle damage quicker. If the treatment reduces inflammation it delayed healing and increased the recovery time. This includes the use of anti-inflammatory pain relievers like ibuprofen.
Inflammation is the same biological process used to kill germs in the case of illness or infections. If germs get into body the immune system sends proteins and cells into the infected area to kill them. When muscles are injured the immune system sends the same cells to promote healing in the damaged tissue.

Inflammatory cells called macrophages release hormones into the damaged tissues that help them heal. Applying ice to reduce swelling prevents the body from releasing the hormone and delays healing. This was shown in a Cleveland Clinic study published in the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology in November, 2010. The lymphatic system will naturally remove the swelling when the healing is done.

Dr. Gabe Mirkin, who wrote the Sportsmedicine Book in 1978 that coined & introduced the term RICE, is now recommending that an injured person should stop exercising, although not resort to complete inactivity, since total rest also does not stimulate tissue repair. Complete rest causes tissue to waste, so he recommends using light exercise as a repair stimulus.

Mirkin says it is okay to apply ice for pain relief immediately after the injury occurs, but for short periods only. Icing is now suggested for 10 minutes, removing the ice for 20 minutes, and repeating the process no more that twice, it is also stressed there is no reason to continue icing more than six hours after injury.

Of course ‘If’ the injury includes broken bones, loss of consciousness, or an inability to move, go to the doctor!

 

[JowGaWolf]

Mirkin says it is okay to apply ice for pain relief immediately after the injury occurs, but for short periods only. Icing is now suggested for 10 minutes, removing the ice for 20 minutes, and repeating the process no more that twice, it is also stressed there is no reason to continue icing more than six hours after injury.

This is what I learned in sports medicine. The rest of what you posted referring to the research I learned when I was introduced to Dit Da Jow.
I like how at the end, that they bring up the case that it's okay to use ice, saying that it's now suggested for 10 minutes and repeating the process no more than twice. Ice is better than nothing lol. Dit Da Jow is better period.

Unlike western medicine Dit Da Jow was made specifically for the types of impact injuries that occur in martial arts. Just rub some Dit Da Jow on the area that is damaged (make sure that there are no open wounds there) and enjoy the fast pain relief.

 

[TSDTexan]

Thanks guys. Helpful indeed

 

[Tez3]

Often though the swelling needs to be reduced to allow for X-raying.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Thanks guys. Helpful indeed

This may help you feel better. It's good for a chuckle since my Goose Egg was caught on video.

Video #4 Date with Dit Da Jow
You can't see the actual block kick but you can hear it around the 5 second mark. That's the sound of my forearm hitting his shin. I would have been ok if it was any of the other students, but my sparring partner has shins like a metal pipe. My delayed reaction is because I tried to play it off like it didn't go well, but as you can see that didn't last long. The injury happened because I didn't use the technique that I we were taught to use for blocking that type of kick. I let my instinct take over so when he kicked my arm naturally went that way. It's a hard lesson learned for me. It took a month for my forearm to heal completely. The injury would have been worse if my forearms hadn't been hard from conditioning.

 

[TSDTexan]

For what it worth:

-From an article in the American Journal of Sports Medicine;

A new acronym, MCE, replaces RICE, the standard since 1978, and leaves out most of the cold therapy for injury treatment.

MCE - Move safely when you can as much as you can, Compress, and Elevate.

While ice or cold therapy reduces inflammation it is now known that inflammation is the body’s first physical response to repairing tissue, and without it healing does not happen. Applying ice causes blood vessels around the injury to constrict and shut off the blood flow that brings in the inflammatory cells needed for healing. The vessels do not open again for hours after the ice is applied. In addition, the ice reduces pain, which is an alert to avoid motion that may be harmful.

Data from studies on the influence of icing on muscle damage show that icing delays recovery and should not be the first choice of treatment for injuries. After icing there was an immediate increase in swelling and indicators of muscle damage actually increased after application of ice. Applying ice causes blood vessels around the injury to constrict and shut off the blood flow that brings in the inflammatory cells needed for healing.

Research published inThe American Journal of Sports Medicine in June, 2013, show that although icing an injury relieved swelling it did not make recovery from muscle damage quicker. If the treatment reduces inflammation it delayed healing and increased the recovery time. This includes the use of anti-inflammatory pain relievers like ibuprofen.
Inflammation is the same biological process used to kill germs in the case of illness or infections. If germs get into body the immune system sends proteins and cells into the infected area to kill them. When muscles are injured the immune system sends the same cells to promote healing in the damaged tissue.

Inflammatory cells called macrophages release hormones into the damaged tissues that help them heal. Applying ice to reduce swelling prevents the body from releasing the hormone and delays healing. This was shown in a Cleveland Clinic study published in the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology in November, 2010. The lymphatic system will naturally remove the swelling when the healing is done.

Dr. Gabe Mirkin, who wrote the Sportsmedicine Book in 1978 that coined & introduced the term RICE, is now recommending that an injured person should stop exercising, although not resort to complete inactivity, since total rest also does not stimulate tissue repair. Complete rest causes tissue to waste, so he recommends using light exercise as a repair stimulus.

Mirkin says it is okay to apply ice for pain relief immediately after the injury occurs, but for short periods only. Icing is now suggested for 10 minutes, removing the ice for 20 minutes, and repeating the process no more that twice, it is also stressed there is no reason to continue icing more than six hours after injury.

Of course ‘If’ the injury includes broken bones, loss of consciousness, or an inability to move, go to the doctor!

Noted.
In the past, I have used ice on a 15 minute interval with a 15 minute warmup and sometimes a second 15 minute ice (rarely).

I will be changing up.

 

[TSDTexan]

14 hours of acewrap later... Goose egg is almost gone.

 

[TSDTexan]

This is what I learned in sports medicine. The rest of what you posted referring to the research I learned when I was introduced to Dit Da Jow.
I like how at the end, that they bring up the case that it's okay to use ice, saying that it's now suggested for 10 minutes and repeating the process no more than twice. Ice is better than nothing lol. Dit Da Jow is better period.

Unlike western medicine Dit Da Jow was made specifically for the types of impact injuries that occur in martial arts. Just rub some Dit Da Jow on the area that is damaged (make sure that there are no open wounds there) and enjoy the fast pain relief.

I will try to source some next time I go to Portland. I get my tiger balm from my Kimchi connection. But I hear there are a number of Chinese apothecaries in Portland.

What is the Kanji/Hanji for Dit Da Jow?
I will add it to my calligraphy studies.

 

[TSDTexan]

I use Dit Da Jow. It is the recommended treatment for chinese martial art practitioners. Other than that the treatment that you have given is the correct one even though modern medicine as now recommended not to ice because it decreases blood flow and slows healing. Dit Da Jow reduces swelling, stops pain, and allows the bruise to heal faster.
If you don't have Dit Da Jow then ice is what I would use on myself. You can read here about Dit Da Jow

There's shouldn't be a need to drain it. Your body will just absorb it. The lump will be there for a while depending on how deep the bruise is.

Your link doesn't work.. It links back to this thread.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Your link doesn't work.. It links back to this thread.

Sorry about that. Here's the Dit da Jow link again from wle.com Just make sure you get Dit Da Jow from a reputable place.

You have to search Dit Da Jow on wle.com because the link the search result for it isn't working when I try to add it here.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I will try to source some next time I go to Portland. I get my tiger balm from my Kimchi connection. But I hear there are a number of Chinese apothecaries in Portland.

What is the Kanji/Hanji for Dit Da Jow?
I will add it to my calligraphy studies.

I'll find out for you.

 

[JowGaWolf]

14 hours of acewrap later... Goose egg is almost gone.

View attachment 19486

Nice job. That's how you know what you do is real lol.

 

[geezer]

Sorry about that. Here's the Dit da Jow link again from wle.com Just make sure you get Dit Da Jow from a reputable place. You have to search Dit Da Jow on wle.com because the link the search result for it isn't working when I try to add it here.

The trouble with Dit Dar Jow is that there are a huge variety of different formulas, and traditional Chinese herbalists often keep certain ingredients in their formulas secret. So most of the time you really don't know what you are getting and, with the variety of recipes, there is no real science behind it that I've seen. People swear by this or that formula, but then they swear by all kinds of crazy stuff including faith healers. And if you look at some of the quackery in traditional Chinese herbalism (how about a little endangered rhino horn or tiger penis? Toxic cinnabar for longevity anyone?) A lot of the benefits can be explained as resulting simply from the regimen of regularly stopping the potentially injurious activity such as striking and conditioning, iron palm, etc. to rub on the jow. This alone may help ... especially when combined with the placebo effect. Nothing against the Chinese BTW We've got plenty of snake-oil in the Western tradition too. Just human nature at work.

So a healthy dose of skepticism is recommended. On the other hand, I'm a little odd. I use jow because I actually like the funky smell. Oh, and there is the whole no atheists in foxholes factor. Maybe it's grasping at straws but its all I've got. Think I got my last batch from Wing Lam too. Had it a long time.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The trouble with Dit Dar Jow is that there are a huge variety of different formulas, and traditional Chinese herbalists often keep certain ingredients in their formulas secret. So most of the time you really don't know what you are getting and, with the variety of recipes, there is no real science behind it that I've seen. People swear by this or that formula, but then they swear by all kinds of crazy stuff including faith healers. And if you look at some of the quackery in traditional Chinese herbalism (how about a little endangered rhino horn or tiger penis? Toxic cinnabar for longevity anyone?) A lot of the benefits can be explained as resulting simply from the regimen of regularly stopping the potentially injurious activity such as striking and conditioning, iron palm, etc. to rub on the jow. This alone may help ... especially when combined with the placebo effect. Nothing against the Chinese BTW We've got plenty of snake-oil in the Western tradition too. Just human nature at work.

So a healthy dose of skepticism is recommended. On the other hand, I'm a little odd. I use jow because I actually like the funky smell. Oh, and there is the whole no atheists in foxholes factor. Maybe it's grasping at straws but its all I've got. Think I got my last batch from Wing Lam too. Had it a long time.

I can only speak from experience with the Dit da jow that my school uses. It works. It's good to be cautious as well. But like you stated. "A healthy dose of skepticism is recommended." which is why I said make sure you get it from someone who is reliable and never use any that has been placed in a plastic bottle.