GM prepares for the end.

[Bob Hubbard]

Just in on CNN

"GM, world's largest carmaker, reports $4.2 billion loss and warns it is running out of money."


Of course, a few weeks ago they were talking merger.
GM-Chrysler talks worry Detroit - Oct. 18, 2008


But it seems the US Treasury wouldn't give them the money

U.S. Treasury rejects aid for GM-Chrysler merger - Nov 3, 2008




Here's a thought. Maybe they should have been putting high fuel efficiency vehicles out that would be in demand today, rather than only releasing little incremental improvements and sticking with gas chuggers this past decade. Or market that $5k mini van here, not in China.

 

[BrandonLucas]

Just in on CNN

"GM, world's largest carmaker, reports $4.2 billion loss and warns it is running out of money."


Of course, a few weeks ago they were talking merger.
GM-Chrysler talks worry Detroit - Oct. 18, 2008


But it seems the US Treasury wouldn't give them the money

U.S. Treasury rejects aid for GM-Chrysler merger - Nov 3, 2008




Here's a thought. Maybe they should have been putting high fuel efficiency vehicles out that would be in demand today, rather than only releasing little incremental improvements and sticking with gas chuggers this past decade. Or market that $5k mini van here, not in China.

They have a $5k minivan??

 

[Bob Hubbard]

LIUZHOU, China - In this obscure corner of southern China, General Motors seems to have hit on a hot new formula: $5,000 minivans that get 43 miles to the gallon in city driving. That combination of advantages has captivated Chinese buyers, propelling G.M. into the leading spot in this nascent car market.

Article is from 2005 - http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/09/a...eb6f4ff19&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

There are other vehicles that both Ford and GM sell elsewhere that get better fuel efficiency and sell much lower, that they will not market in the US.

 

[BrandonLucas]

Article is from 2005 - http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/09/a...eb6f4ff19&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

There are other vehicles that both Ford and GM sell elsewhere that get better fuel efficiency and sell much lower, that they will not market in the US.

Then I hope they do crash...and burn...and anything else you could do to a car company...

 

[Nolerama]

It's sad to see American industries go down in flames... But you can't compete when someone (or some robot) is pumping out cars at twice the rate, and getting paid pennies on the dollar.

Regardless, aren't all car companies worldwide suffering a hit? I heard that Toyota and Honda are really scaling back their production levels.

But in light of this, I really want to get the new Camaro before the magic ends.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Toyota is scaling back production, while GM is spending millions to retool. All car manufacturers are getting hammered though.

 

[Makalakumu]

No more bailouts. Let the company go. Break it up. Get some competition!

 

[rhn_kenpo]

I'm no fan of the US automakers. Their management and labor have made enough judgment errors over the decades to put even the sturdiest of companies out of business. But many of the products they have successfully sold in other countries are not available in the US due to regulatory constraints. Cool $5k minivans and more importantly, fuel efficient small diesel cars and SUVs that get 25%-40% more MPG than comparable gas powered vehicles, are not legal in the US. DOT crash test standards and EPA/CARB emissions standards keep these vehicles out.

IMHO, there is no economic case for a US auto manufacturing industry. Zero. This is a labor and capital intensive industry that uses sophisticated but also widely available technology. The economic and market realities are now clear and it is just a matter of time.
R

 

[Cryozombie]

As long as I can keep getting parts for my Camaro I don't really care what happens to GM if they wanna play that way.

 

[crushing]

Sorry, but when I read the title of this thread I couldn't help but think of some 15th Dan Grand Master readying himself for the apocalypse.


Anyway, the American people said they wanted gas guzzling picke 'em up trucks and SUVs and the US automakers obliged. Fickle people are changing their preferences faster than the companies can retool. I wouldn't put the blame completely at the feet of the automakers. Would that not be like blaming WalMart for satisfying their customers?

 

[Gordon Nore]

...But many of the products they have successfully sold in other countries are not available in the US due to regulatory constraints. Cool $5k minivans and more importantly, fuel efficient small diesel cars and SUVs that get 25%-40% more MPG than comparable gas powered vehicles, are not legal in the US. DOT crash test standards and EPA/CARB emissions standards keep these vehicles out.

Interesting point. I also follow a Canadian forum devoted to the Smart ForTwo automobile by Mercedes Benz. Up until 2008 model year, Canada had the diesel version, which was similar to, if not the same as, the model sold elsewhere in the world. Despite the car's off-the-chart fuel economy and low emissions, Mercedes could not get the diesel approved for sale in the US because it was not efficient enough relative to its size. It didn't matter that the car polluted less and got more milage than virtually anything on the road.

Mercedes switched it to a gasoline version for North American distribution in 2008.

I've been a small car driver since the seventies. Had the misfortune of owning a used Pontiac Astra (twin of the Chevy Vega) -- shiver. This was the same era that produced the Ford Pinto, the AMC Gremlin, and a long list of poorly made small cars coming out of Detroit or Windsor. It always seemed to me that the North Amrerican auto makers were handing potential customers over to Hyundai and Honda.

Obviously there has been a market for well-made small cars -- you see people driving them everyday. Problem is: the big three have not been making them.

 

[fireman00]

My rant.....3 big unions; auto, teachers and teamsters, have ruined the U.S. economy. I'm not saying folks should make 4 bucks an hour but 29.00 bucks an hour plus O/T to deliver packages? 30 bucks an hour to put on lug nuts? We've been brain washed that everyone should be living the high life but the cold reality is that some folks will never own a home, some folks will always have to buy used cars, some folks will not be able to own a 52" big screen, some folks will have to work two jobs to get their kids through college... get over it. There is enough legislation in place to protect workers - unions are now about the $. Not for the workers, but for to pump up their coffers.

Should be interesting to see how Mr. Obama will do as he's made some big promises to union members and largely union states, like NJ, about bringing jobs back to the U.S.

 

[arnisador]

Unions were necessary initially, but they have grown too powerful and the pendulum needs to swing back.

 

[Makalakumu]

Blaming it on the Unions is too simplistic. The Unions built a standard of living for jobs like those at a time when you could have a job like that have that standard of living. As our currency has been devalued and our standard of living has dropped, can you really blame the Unions for attempting to hold on to all of the hard fought gains?

The real problem is that our standard of living is dropping. Its getting harder and harder to work and make a living. The government has been devaluing the currency for decades in order to support its gross spending habits and we are all being impoverished by it.

Now the Fed needs a scapegoat.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Here's a thought.

Cut sale prices of cars in half.
They'd still make a profit, but sales would rise.

Increase fuel efficiency, across the board, not by 1-2 mpg, but by 30-40mpg.
Sales would rise.

 

[terryl965]

All I know is our government will step in and save them like they did for the airline industry.

 

[crushing]

All I know is our government will step in and save them like they did for the airline industry.

I think so to. One or more of the big three American automakers going out of business won't just affect that particular company. There are dozens of auto suppliers with their million and a half or so jobs that are dependent on the automakers. When one of the big three goes down, it will take with it the related businesses.

They didn't get bailout money to support a merger effort for the same reason, it would cost tens of thousands of jobs. When they do get the bailout money I wouldn't be surprised if one of the few strings attached to it would disallow any mergers between the big three.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I think so to. One or more of the big three American automakers going out of business won't just affect that particular company. There are dozens of auto suppliers with their million and a half or so jobs that are dependent on the automakers. When one of the big three goes down, it will take with it the related businesses.

They didn't get bailout money to support a merger effort for the same reason, it would cost tens of thousands of jobs. When they do get the bailout money I wouldn't be surprised if one of the few strings attached to it would disallow any mergers between the big three.

Crushing and Terry I think you are very right on both accounts.

 

[grydth]

As I have said before, the all consuming greed of the current generations of American executives have harmed our country more than Osama bin Laden could ever dream of.

This is a different matter from the money so quickly poured down the rat holes at AIG and other places. The case of the auto industry, as with the airlines and firearms industries, have national defense implications.... which means national existence implications. We triumphed in World War II in large part because we were, "The Arsenal of Democracy" - - - we could produce carriers, B-17s, Shermans, 50 cals etc, in the quality and quantity to overwhelm our enemies and support our allies.

So..... what happens when we can't produce M-1 tanks anymore in the USA ? What would happen if lawsuits by those with an agenda of undermining the 2d Amendment had bankrupted the makers of the M-16?

I am not sure many appreciate just how close the Grim Reaper is....

 

[Bob Hubbard]

An interesting thought. I'd forgotten the contibutions to the military.
Now that might put a bailout of the auto manufacturers under National Defense.....