"GM" Leung Ting - A big Fake?

[KamonGuy2]

Like I said, you never know how good someone is until you see or train with them in person

Video clips can help, but do not always give an accurate portrayal of how fast, powerful something is, especially in this day and age of video editing and fakery

When I trained with LT, I didn't like him and that's the opinion I formed. His wing chun was 'okay' but his theories were odd.

The students/instructors who have come to me from WT were a little bit disillusioned with some of their ideas. Yet I am sure there are guys out there (especially people like Bozteppi etc) who are good.

It is difficult judging WT as one package purely for the reason that everyone is an individual. Students of WT will have experience in other arts. They might have done 10 years of Kamon before going to WT for example!

Like Kamon, there are good students and bad students. Some students/instructors have had experience from other organisations
Therefore, they haven't just been taught solely by Master Chan (although that is their main influence). It would be unfair to judge Sifu Kevin Chan and his students in the same package

 

[geezer]

When I trained with LT, I didn't like him and that's the opinion I formed. His wing chun was 'okay' but his theories were odd.

Yet I am sure there are guys out there (especially people like Bozteppi etc) who are good...It is difficult judging WT as one package purely for the reason that everyone is an individual.

Yep. We are all individuals in WT and WC. I prefer to be judged for who I am rather than who I learned from...although I give my teachers a great deal of credit. And, Kamon Guy, I appreciate it that you actually trained under Leung Ting before forming a conclusive opinion.

By the way, I don't think its off-topic to ask which of GM Leung's theories struck you as particularly odd and why. As far as I know, he differentiates himself from other Yip Man lineage practioners primarily in two areas: 1. stance/steps with his insistence on keeping the weight entirely on the rear leg, and 2. his emphasis on yielding, "springy" forward energy in techniques. Other than that, I always felt that WT stands apart mainly in its standardized training drills and teaching methods, more than in what is taught. At any rate, I am very interested in your opinion.

 

[KamonGuy2]

By the way, I don't think its off-topic to ask which of GM Leung's theories struck you as particularly odd and why. As far as I know, he differentiates himself from other Yip Man lineage practioners primarily in two areas: 1. stance/steps with his insistence on keeping the weight entirely on the rear leg, and 2. his emphasis on yielding, "springy" forward energy in techniques. Other than that, I always felt that WT stands apart mainly in its standardized training drills and teaching methods, more than in what is taught. At any rate, I am very interested in your opinion.

To be honest, I don't really want to get into another debate about WT's teachings....

People will get a rough idea what I am talking about if you watch him in Kick As* Moves with Chris Crudelli. Very odd. But like I say, don't form your whole opinion based solely on that - go see him in person

Good luck

 

[Punchy]

To be honest, I don't really want to get into another debate about WT's teachings....

People will get a rough idea what I am talking about if you watch him in Kick As* Moves with Chris Crudelli. Very odd. But like I say, don't form your whole opinion based solely on that - go see him in person

Good luck

OK, I watched it......??? he said the tricep extends the arm and the bicep bends the arm.......what's the odd part?

 

[KamonGuy2]

OK, I watched it......??? he said the tricep extends the arm and the bicep bends the arm.......what's the odd part?

The bit with the lightbulb and the bit where he is introducing Sammo Hung to Crudelli. Suddenly the atmosphere switches because Crudelli asks very innocently whether Hung would show him something

 

[geezer]

The bit with the lightbulb and the bit where he is introducing Sammo Hung to Crudelli. Suddenly the atmosphere switches because Crudelli asks very innocently whether Hung would show him something

OK, that tears it. I don't care if I only have dial-up and it takes me forever to download anything. Where can I view this?

Besides, nobody can outdo my own personal hero, "Uncle Fester" Adams when it coms to lightbulb tricks. Now that's some Chi Kung!

 

[Punchy]

OK, that tears it. I don't care if I only have dial-up and it takes me forever to download anything. Where can I view this?


I hear you geezer, we just recently got broadband. Before, when we had dial up and I would try to download anything, I swear I was ready to hang myself it was so freakin' slow.

It's on youtube, I did a search for Leung Ting Kick *** moves

 

[mook jong man]

OK, that tears it. I don't care if I only have dial-up and it takes me forever to download anything. Where can I view this?


I hear you geezer, we just recently got broadband. Before, when we had dial up and I would try to download anything, I swear I was ready to hang myself it was so freakin' slow.

It's on youtube, I did a search for Leung Ting Kick *** moves

Don't worry about that fellas here in Australia the broadband might as well be dial up its so friggin slow , i reckon even Kazakstan would have faster broadband than us .

 

[dungeonworks]

The bit with the lightbulb and the bit where he is introducing Sammo Hung to Crudelli. Suddenly the atmosphere switches because Crudelli asks very innocently whether Hung would show him something

I saw it on YouTube, but it was only 4:50 long. Maybe I missed this wasn't in the one I seen. Any chance you could PM me about what happened in the video?

 

[KamonGuy2]

Man it was so long ago that I saw it...

Leung Ting was showing how his students could chain punch someone into submission (groan)

He then starts talking about lightbulbs and compares knocking someone out to turning off a light
You can see Crudelli is confused and he is a pretty smart guy

The thing finishes with Sammo Hung coming down in a very odd pink coat.
Leung Ting looks intimidated and Crudelli asks if Sammo can do something
They both look at him very suspiciously and as though he has insulted them!! They dismiss his request - even though it was an honest question!!

You just have to see the clip for yourself

Like I said, its not a big thing, but gives you a rough idea of exactly what Leung Ting is like

 

[geezer]

Man it was so long ago that I saw it...

Leung Ting was showing how his students could chain punch someone into submission (groan)

He then starts talking about lightbulbs and compares knocking someone out to turning off a light
You can see Crudelli is confused and he is a pretty smart guy

The thing finishes with Sammo Hung coming down in a very odd pink coat.
Leung Ting looks intimidated and Crudelli asks if Sammo can do something
They both look at him very suspiciously and as though he has insulted them!! They dismiss his request - even though it was an honest question!!

You just have to see the clip for yourself

Like I said, its not a big thing, but gives you a rough idea of exactly what Leung Ting is like

Yes, that surreal description sounds all too familiar. Now you know why when I look back on my time as a disciple of GM Leung, whatever else you might say, it was always ...interesting.

 

[KamonGuy2]

Yeah but yopu might as well go to a comedy club or visit the zoo. Its cheaper and you'd learn more... lol

 

[El_Nastro]

I'm no fan of Leung Ting. Anyone who would voluntarily choose to call themselves the "Master of Almightiness" is an egomaniacal turd. I went to a Ting school for a while, and I know some guys that were part of his organization for years before switching to Ip Ching, not because Ting's Wing Chun was fake or ineffective, but because he was just a sleezy dude. (note: while Ting's Wing Chun isn't horrible, one of the guys that left Ting said, after a short time under Ip Ching, "My Wing Chun is soooo much better now"!)

William Cheung is even worse, though only slightly so. Ting may have his own issues, but at least the Wing Chun he teaches ultimately comes from Yip Man even if he really is a 2nd or 3rd generation student. Cheung just made up a bunch of stuff and tried to pass of this b.s. about how Yip taught everyone but him wrong on purpose.

It's funny that the two most commercially successful Wing Chun guys are also the two biggest crooks. Hmmm...that's probably exactly WHY they are such successful businessmen.

I also love how they have that little feud. Shouldn't they be patting each other on the back, and high-fiving each other over their shared love of con-artistry?

 

[KamonGuy2]

That is why i love my style. There is no BS. Kevin Chan knows his level, knows that there are always people better than him (I haven't seen them yet!) and merely asks that you call hm Sifu, that's it

There is no expectation to bow before him and a beginner off the street can walk up to him and chat to him

I know federations where you cannot even approach the master
Its almost like a cult!!

Kevin Chan earns respect just by being him as with many Sifu's out there.

I try and be very approachable in my classes. Sure we have rules (mainly for health and safety) and there is ettiquette - paying respects to your training partner before you train etc.
Yet I would be horrified if I learnt that one of my students feared me to the point he couldn't talk to me!!

 

[profesormental]

Greetings.

I think a good teacher should make you feel good around them. My teachers have always been funny guys that promote trust and comfortable atmosphere...

Yet I know on the mat they're drill sargents!

The important thing is to know that they are there to teach and help you. And have fun while doing it!

I explicitly know that they have the best intentions at heart. That is the example I follow.

Juan M. Mercado

 

[BFL]

I shall apparently remain poor from a monetary point of view as I would rather teach students with integrity and honor. Not saying I'm any better than anyone else, but I compare myself to how "some" previously mentioned others teach and profit from it and I'll choose to remain not as wealthy but richer in my soul. Of course I'm not above life's needs or the normal likeing of money. If I could maintain my honor, integrity and dignity and make a crap load of money, I'm more than happy to do it. I can at least look myself in the mirror and know I didn't lie, con anyone or hurt anyone that day. Karma is a ***** and in the end it get's us one way or another. What goes around comes around and when it does, loookout. Sadly the con jobs out there taint Wing Chun deeply but maybe we can make up for it by teaching well and leading with good examples to our students.

 

[KamonGuy2]

I agree. Whilst I do make money out of the wing chun I teach, it wouldn't be enough to live on or go full time with.

I make sure students get value for money when I teach them. If I thought for one second that they weren't learning anything or

Also, you need to make money in order to keep the school running and promote the class etc.

Yet there are federations (Choi Kwang Do, Fighting Fit, etc) that are deemed McDojos due to the nature of their teaching and reluctance to engage any other style

I trained with CKD for two years and was asked to grade every month (!!)
I made excuses about not being able to attend the gradings and they did get funny with me. Gradings were £30, fees were £55 (I think they have gone up to £60).

In Kamon, it is £48 per month meaning you can train 7 times a week, and gradings are very far apart
I like a semi casual style that is more interested in progressing you than limiting you

 

[qwksilver61]

He still produces quality Instructors,heck just visit one of his schools

 

[BFL]

skill does not equal honesty or integrity and I believe it was honesty and integrity in question, not skill. The two are not related or interchangeable. Mike Tyson was a heck of a fighter with a killer punch, but basically not a very decent person. There's a Weng Shun Sifu in the Netherlands who might have been highly skilled but is in Dutch custody for raping multiple female students. Skill has nothing to do with character.

 

[geezer]

skill does not equal honesty or integrity and I believe it was honesty and integrity in question, not skill... Skill has nothing to do with character.

I agree. Unfortunately, it is hard to separate our judgement of the two. When we find a person's character distasteful, it is all too easy to devalue all that they do. In the case of the complex personality of Leung Ting, I believe that his character and business practices have led people to overlook or even deny that he is extremely skilful. Nevertheless, he and some of his more gifted followers have made significant contributions to the development of Wing Chun. Unfortunately, he has held back from sharing publicly a great deal of what he knows.

IMHO egotism, arrogance and greed are the bane of the Martial Arts and Wing Chun has suffered as much as any style. If people could just put all that garbage aside and share, we would all benefit. Imagine...