Girl wins state title in boys wrestling
- Thread starter mrhnau
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Sarah
Senior Master
Sam said:
The only way this attitude will change is by more girls getting out there and competing, and having the support of great guys like the ones here on MT!
Sam said:
I disagree. I don't think it's so much a lose-lose, it just underscores the need for good sportsmanship. Good sportsmanship by the people watching a boy and a girl match up...and good sportsmanship for the athletes that compete. Just my opinion, though.
Personally, I'm more of an armchair athlete. I have very little of my own ability, but I love a good competition. Fabiola Da Silva, competing with male inline skaters at earlier X games, was incredible to watch. Many of the reactions were similar to the reactions in the article. They respected her as a strong competitor.
I think there will be more female athletes that can earn their way in to a men's competition in to the future...when that happens, the sport will only benefit
Adept
Master Black Belt
mrhnau said:
No. Without chemical enhancement, females are physically inferior to males, and would suffer from being in the same competitions.
Adept said:
I wouldn't go so far as to say inferior, just better at different things.
Men definitely got it in the overall body strength if thats what you mean, but that's not everything.
Look at the martial arts... If you know the right places to hit, you need hardly any strength at all to be effective.
Adept
Master Black Belt
Sam said:
Sure. But when skill is equal, the bigger guy wins. Men have a natural advantage over women in terms of muscle and bone development. They are bigger, stronger, faster, more able to take an impact without being 'hurt', and more aggressive. Can you imagine women playing in the NFL? They'd get crushed.
Even taking the martial arts as an example; you wouldn't put a woman, any woman, in the ring with someone like this. Bigger, stronger and faster all count for something, and it would be unfair to expect women to compete against men where the natural advantages of men come in to play. For things like golf, snooker, or other games and sports where being bigger, stronger and faster are all minor considerations, then certainly mixed leagues should be (and I believe for the most part are) accepted.
But it would be unfair to the dedicated female athletes to ask them to compete against people with a natural advantage.
Adept said:
That is, shall we say, an overly broad statement.
It depends. If it's a weightlifting competition, yes. It's less clear in rifle, for example.
Also, this is all based on the mean and s.d. of the relevant bell curves...for those women at the top of the curve, competing in mixed-gender events may be a viable option.
Yeah, I wouldn't put a human in there with him!
Adept said:
True, the bigger one can win...that is why there are weight classes in matches like wrestling and boxing. A 160 lb wrestler has an advantage over a 115 lb wrestler, regardless of gender.
Can I imagine a woman playing in the NFL? You betcha, and I predict that in my lifetime we will see a woman with a monstrous leg playing as a punter or kicker.
I do agree with you that it is unfair to mandate that women play against men in a variety of sports. But for the women that are the standout exception...the truly gifted females such as Fabiola Da Silva or former IHL goalie Manon Rheaume...if they can demonstrate that they have the desire and the ability to truly compete at the men's level...they deserve to have a chance to do so.
- Thread Starter
- #32
lady_kaur said:
The NFL comment was interesting... I've heard about female kickers in college football (I think Colorado had a scandal surrounding one a few years back). I've known some girls in college and high school that could have easily competed on a football team in different positions. Some of the skilled positions (running back, wide receiver, etc.) I could easily see some high school teams being able to let gifted women play. My high school (small one at that) had two girls who could easily have competed on our team. Not sure about Division 1 college football though, and unlikely even in division 2.
Flatlander
Grandmaster
I applaud her effort, and her success.
Regarding the comment upthread that having women compete against men can be a lose-lose for the males, I totally disagree. May the most deserving win, I say. Further, if competing in any sport against someone of any gender, one has the personal responsibility to compete with every available effort, for the purity of the challenge. Should the woman win, she earned it and deserves it, and the man should feel no greater shame than if she was male.
The only shame lies in choosing your opponent. To be the best, one must face any qualified challenger.
Regarding the comment upthread that having women compete against men can be a lose-lose for the males, I totally disagree. May the most deserving win, I say. Further, if competing in any sport against someone of any gender, one has the personal responsibility to compete with every available effort, for the purity of the challenge. Should the woman win, she earned it and deserves it, and the man should feel no greater shame than if she was male.
The only shame lies in choosing your opponent. To be the best, one must face any qualified challenger.
Henderson
Master Black Belt
Growing up I played basketball at the park from morning til night. There were always two girls that played with us. Carol and Pam. They were good. And when I say "good", I mean good. Not good for a girl. Just plain good. There was no special dispensation given because they were female. They'd get hammered on just like anyone else. They'd step in to take an offensive foul on the asphalt just like one of the guys. Hell...they were one of the guys! When you lost to them, you didn't "lose to a girl", you just lost to Carol or Pam.
Jagermeister
Blue Belt
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mrhnau said:
Girls, without performance enhancing drugs or genetic doping, will never be able to play football beyond high school (kickers excepted). They just can't get big enough to bang with those big boys.
A side note: any of you ever hear of that guy that played high school field hockey? HBO Real Sports did a story on him. He was dominant, and you wouldn't have believed how pissed everybody got. The same parents that wanted their daughters to be able to play boys' sports, too. Just plain funny.
You know you really shouldn't make such broad generalizations that are finalized like that. You don't know every girl out there who has ever and will ever be born. There are some small guys out there playing in the NFL, you don't have to be 6'3" 300 lbs to play football. Though 99.9% of girls/women most probably would not be able play competently past H.S. (kicker's excluded), if doesn't mean a hardworking woman who really wanted it and was given a legit chance wouldn't be able to hold her own.Jagermeister said:
Sin
2nd Black Belt
If I were back in High School...Oh to be 16 again....I would so ask her out...
I love women who can fight...
No offence ladies...Not trying to be the sterotypical male here....Just a personal opinion.
I love women who can fight...
No offence ladies...Not trying to be the sterotypical male here....Just a personal opinion.
I think it's great that girls are excelling in wrestling.
I've often wondered why there are separate gender catagories for some activities (like Billiards & Bowling). I don't consider it a sport unless someone is at least getting punched. (So hockey is usually a sport
).
But tell me, why can't women compete equally w/ men in Bowling & Billiards?
I've often wondered why there are separate gender catagories for some activities (like Billiards & Bowling). I don't consider it a sport unless someone is at least getting punched. (So hockey is usually a sport
).But tell me, why can't women compete equally w/ men in Bowling & Billiards?
Adept
Master Black Belt
lady_kaur said:
Certainly can't argue with that. If they want to, then let them. I was more referring to official events like the world championships or olympics, and the idea of abolishing seperate gender events for mixed gender ones.
Jagermeister said:
Well, who can argue with logic like that?
From here:
From the Muggsy Bogues page:
Then there's Earl Boykins, too.
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