Getting involved

[Sapphire]

I just responded to a thread in the knife section of the forum, and it got me using my google-fu, and I found rather sobering information that basically boils down to the main shopping center and tourist attraction in my city having a LOT more violent crime occur there than I originally thought. The only explanation is that the mall officials do what they can to cover up any fights, so that the only reason people visit my city can still exist without negativity. However, a simple search on YouTube showed me multiple fights that didn't get reported by any of the local news channels.

This caused me to think about how I am personally. As I said in the knife forum concerning EDC knives, I mentioned that when I (rarely) go to this mall to meet friends/see a movie (I try to see movies at the local theater and meet friends at the smaller mall with a lot less "traffic"), I carry a longer bladed knife with a more comfortable grip so that I can definitely wield it defensively. Of course, I have a head on my shoulders and a lot to lose, so I'm not about to stab someone if they begin fighting someone else. I'm not about to get into a fight over petty issues and I'm definitely going to take the escape route at the first opportunity.

The reason I bring all this up is because I want to discuss, in somewhat of a "moral" idea, when and why you would get involved in a fight that you just happen to witness.

Consider this: you're walking through the food court area of a mall, shopping center, outdoors event, etc, and you see two women arguing and screaming at each other. You see all the classic signs (the ones you learned in self defense class) that someone is going to swing. You know that if someone were speaking to you in this manner, you would have at the VERY least backed up and/or put your hands up with your palms out in an attempt to de-escalate the situation. However, since it isn't you, you simply walk away and hope that nobody gets hurt.

But is there a variable of the situation where you would decide to attempt to break up the fight? Is there a time where you would feel the need to become involved, potentially being harmed yourself? I can say right now that I would scope out that situation for children or innocent elderly who aren't involved and ensure that they don't get hurt. I wouldn't attack anyone but I would definitely be ready to administer first aid and/or simply evacuate the area until security and/or police arrived. I'm not a large person, I'm far from intimidating, especially being a younger man with a thin frame and long hair, so even though I have a big voice for my looks, I'm pretty sure me walking up and yelling "knock it off" won't do me much. However, if a child or elderly gets injured because of a petty squabble between people at a mall that's advertised as "family friendly," I really feel like all bets would be off for me, and I'd use almost all of my training on them until the threat was neutralized. Same goes for if I happen to be there with one of my nieces/nephews, one of my untrained friends, or my fiancée.

 

[Tez3]

I've never seen a fight in shopping centres, the ones I've been to are well patrolled by security and police. I imagine any fight would be broken up quickly when the police arrive. People get out of the way very quickly when a fight breaks out however. Here, at least most fights tend to happen at night after drinking. Then there are usually extra police out.

 

[ballen0351]

It is funny how well crime stats from certain places get hidden so well. We have a very large mall here that's almost a tourist attraction now with the addition of a new casino. Before I became a cop in the area I had no idea how bad it was. They have more car jacking, armed robberies, auto thefts then anywhere else In the area. They made the mall it's own sector in the county with its own substation in the mall and a min of 10 officers on duty 24/7 just at the mall. None of the crime ever makes the news. People have no idea how bad it is there.

 

[Razor]

If it's during the day time and there are people around I wouldn't mind getting involved, just to talk to the people and see what the problem is. If someone actually attacks someone that changes things a bit. It is always difficult; a few months ago I broke up some people who seemed to be escalating to a fight with another guy. Myself and someone ahead of me on the street both crossed the road to go and break them up, which we succeeded in eventually, but they were at the more shouting at each other and pushing stage than actual violence. This was about 5am in South London though, so may or may not have been the best of ideas.

My friend has a very disarming way of asking people if everything's alright when we've seen people starting to get aggressive to one another. He's one of the nicest and friendliest people I know though, so not sure everyone could make it work, myself included! It often seems to calm people down a bit though. If people are seriously getting in to it, I think it's best to notify the authorities and stick around to witness and stop someone if things unbalance one way or another. If one of them gets the upper hand and ends up stamping on the other's head for instance, that changes things a lot and it can become a life and death matter very quickly. I think it's a good idea to make sure other bystanders are safe too, like you say.

One thing I feel I should mention just while on the subject is that although it is good to think about these things and in my opinion society needs more people who are willing to help others in this way, it can have terrible consequences. A month ago here a 20 year old died while breaking up a fight because some idiot punched him. These things have to be considered unfortunately :/

 

[drop bear]

If someone is actually getting flogged I will stop it. Or if I know one of the guys is a real victim.

If it is a fair stand up fight I wont.

 

[Transk53]

Had to deal with four Polish blokes this morning who were drunk and high as a skunk. They decided to head over to our mini mall after being politely spoken to by myself to cut the noise and drinking. They headed to the ASDA superstore and tried to nick some booze. Went crazy for a bit, and we detained one in our residential area. Cheeky bleeder threatened to punch me in the face just because I forced him (lightly) to sit down in our Gator seat. Apparently he is going to come back and get me. Yeah shivering

 

[ballen0351]

I've intervened in a few altercations I've seen off duty. But I always have a badge and gun. Pre-police days I tried to stop a guy from smacking his girlfriend around at a gas station once. We ended up in a fight in the parking lot. Didn't work out as good as I'd hoped-for.

 

[crazydiamond]

There are so many variables in any assault - but if a child or elderly yes with prejudice. If someone is screaming for help, being pummeled to a pulp, out cold and being beat yes I probably try to stop it but there are so many things to consider.

Unless it was grave, I would never step into a BF/GF Husband/Wife altercation because it would not surprise me to have them both turn on me.

P.S. - if it was two kids (like under 16) I would also be hesitant to use any force on a minor to stop a kid on kid fight.

 

[Sapphire]

It is funny how well crime stats from certain places get hidden so well. We have a very large mall here that's almost a tourist attraction now with the addition of a new casino. Before I became a cop in the area I had no idea how bad it was. They have more car jacking, armed robberies, auto thefts then anywhere else In the area. They made the mall it's own sector in the county with its own substation in the mall and a min of 10 officers on duty 24/7 just at the mall. None of the crime ever makes the news. People have no idea how bad it is there.

Yep because they don't want the bad publicity. This is literally the main tourist attraction in my city and if it goes, I'm confident that the whole city would. Even though our city was a huge part of the underground railroad and has a lot of great history to it, people come for the shops, and that's it.

If it's during the day time and there are people around I wouldn't mind getting involved, just to talk to the people and see what the problem is. If someone actually attacks someone that changes things a bit. It is always difficult; a few months ago I broke up some people who seemed to be escalating to a fight with another guy. Myself and someone ahead of me on the street both crossed the road to go and break them up, which we succeeded in eventually, but they were at the more shouting at each other and pushing stage than actual violence. This was about 5am in South London though, so may or may not have been the best of ideas.

My friend has a very disarming way of asking people if everything's alright when we've seen people starting to get aggressive to one another. He's one of the nicest and friendliest people I know though, so not sure everyone could make it work, myself included! It often seems to calm people down a bit though. If people are seriously getting in to it, I think it's best to notify the authorities and stick around to witness and stop someone if things unbalance one way or another. If one of them gets the upper hand and ends up stamping on the other's head for instance, that changes things a lot and it can become a life and death matter very quickly. I think it's a good idea to make sure other bystanders are safe too, like you say.

One thing I feel I should mention just while on the subject is that although it is good to think about these things and in my opinion society needs more people who are willing to help others in this way, it can have terrible consequences. A month ago here a 20 year old died while breaking up a fight because some idiot punched him. These things have to be considered unfortunately :/

Yes, my top concern would be other people, not the people actually fighting. That's all their business, and if they feel the need to duke it out, that's one thing, but it's another thing entirely if a baby or a pregnant woman or an old man with an oxygen tank got hit because of the fighters being foolish and reckless. The other thing is if someone is bleeding out or, say, got shoved and hit their head on a chair or a railing and now has a serious concussion. That's when I would get involved. But even if I have a knife that's if and only if I'm jumped while trying to help bystanders. Knives make things ugly real quick -- I'm not quick to drawing one. No way. Also, 20 year old dying for trying to break up a fight? That's very unfortunate...

I've intervened in a few altercations I've seen off duty. But I always have a badge and gun. Pre-police days I tried to stop a guy from smacking his girlfriend around at a gas station once. We ended up in a fight in the parking lot. Didn't work out as good as I'd hoped-for.

That's too bad. Now, I'm not likely to just step in and beat up a guy for smacking around his girlfriend. If he's violent enough to slap a woman around in public, not only is he violent, he doesn't care. He'd probably be just fine with taking someone's life in public as well. Unless he was literally stomping her face into the dirt, I'd probably just get good video footage of him to give to the police.

There are so many variables in any assault - but if a child or elderly yes with prejudice. If someone is screaming for help, being pummeled to a pulp, out cold and being beat yes I probably try to stop it but there are so many things to consider.

Unless it was grave, I would never step into a BF/GF Husband/Wife altercation because it would not surprise me to have them both turn on me.

P.S. - if it was two kids (like under 16) I would also be hesitant to use any force on a minor to stop a kid on kid fight.

I'm about the height and weight of the average 14 year old, even though I'm nearly 24. I've been to arcades where dopey 14 year old kids have tried to bully me off of games and I've literally just ignored them until they've walked away. However I've also had dumb *** 14 year old kids block my way while I'm on the escalator. I've been tempted to do something more than wait out their stupidity at times lol.

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I gotta say you guys, I posted this thread on MartialArtsPlanet.com and you're a lot less troll-ish than they are. Those guys have skewed my words and have been calling me stupid, reckless, and "tacticool" just for carrying a knife.

 

[ballen0351]

That's too bad. Now, I'm not likely to just step in and beat up a guy for smacking around his girlfriend. If he's violent enough to slap a woman around in public, not only is he violent, he doesn't care. He'd probably be just fine with taking someone's life in public as well. Unless he was literally stomping her face into the dirt, I'd probably just get good video footage of him to give to the police.
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I was 20 and a Marine at the time and drunk so I didn't give it much thought at the time. Now I'd do things differently