Gedan makikomi?

[Tigerwarrior]

Was learning a shotokan move today. I believe it was called gedan makikomi (please forgive me if I didn't spell that correctly) basically a counter to a front kick. I looked online to see it done on video or to see if anyone was talking about it. It seemed like it doesn't exist, which is weird because a 3rd dan taught me this. It's highly possible I miss spelled it, but I'm interested in this move. You can see John kreese use this move in cobra Kai when he returns to Johnny's dojo and fights him. Does anyone know about this move? I want to study it more and try to implement it into my sparring.

 

[Buka]

Was learning a shotokan move today. I believe it was called gedan makikomi (please forgive me if I didn't spell that correctly) basically a counter to a front kick. I looked online to see it done on video or to see if anyone was talking about it. It seemed like it doesn't exist, which is weird because a 3rd dan taught me this. It's highly possible I miss spelled it, but I'm interested in this move. You can see John kreese use this move in cobra Kai when he returns to Johnny's dojo and fights him. Does anyone know about this move? I want to study it more and try to implement it into my sparring.

IMO, the best way to integrate into your sparring is through trial and error. (and maybe bandaids)

Can you describe what the move consists of?

 

[isshinryuronin]

"Kekomi refers to thrust (as in yoko geri kekomi - side thrust kick). "Gedan" means lower level.
That's as close as I can get.

Can you describe what the move consists of?

This would be a big help.
BTW, why not just ask the guy that "taught" it to you?????????

 

[_Simon_]

Is it more a leg redirection using your own leg to parry (shin block sorta, can be done arcing to the inside or outside) or a jamming technique (using your leg to jam their kick before it completes), usually using your ball of foot or heel on their knee/thigh or their back hip?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Makikomi is a wrap-around throw.

I'm unfamiliar with the term gedan, so i'll trust isshin ryu on that.

Based on that, my best guess is that when your opponent uses a front kick, you go in low and grab it/perform the traditional makikomi sacrifice-esque throw.

If so, that wouldn't be a particularly smart way to counter a front kick. If instead it's actually just stepping to the side and wrapping the kick as you do (and someone decided to combine those words based on literal translation rather than how they'd normally be used), that's a fairly normal counter.

This is all theoretical at this point though, until @Tigerwarrior comes back and tells us which one got it right.

 

[Tigerwarrior]

Is it more a leg redirection using your own leg to parry (shin block sorta, can be done arcing to the inside or outside) or a jamming technique (using your leg to jam their kick before it completes), usually using your ball of foot or heel on their knee/thigh or their back hip?

Bingo! Very similar to this. Picture an oblique kick from jkd. But instead of kicking straight at the opponents knee you are kicking sideways almost crossing your other leg. It looks like you are trying to deflect the front kick with the bottom of your foot but you are really using the shin to parry it. It's more a parry than a block(atleast the one I was shown) the shin deflects the kicking leg and pushes the opponent a bit off center then you can counter. Is this technique in your style? What is it called? I only know it as what I wrote the name as, it was shown to me by a shotokan practitioner. I think it would be a very useful move in kickboxing or tkd even karate sparring.

 

[_Simon_]

Bingo! Very similar to this. Picture an oblique kick from jkd. But instead of kicking straight at the opponents knee you are kicking sideways almost crossing your other leg. It looks like you are trying to deflect the front kick with the bottom of your foot but you are really using the shin to parry it. It's more a parry than a block(atleast the one I was shown) the shin deflects the kicking leg and pushes the opponent a bit off center then you can counter. Is this technique in your style? What is it called? I only know it as what I wrote the name as, it was shown to me by a shotokan practitioner. I think it would be a very useful move in kickboxing or tkd even karate sparring.

Ahhh yep! Yeah we have that in some of our ashi sabaki sets. We don't have a specific name apart from leg/shin block, but I'd call it hiza uchi uke or hiza soto uke (even though hiza is knee, it's more describing the motion of the knee). Have used this many times with success in sparring, but gotta be super aware, get the timing right and probably easier to use the front leg to do the parry.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Anyone have an example of this in kata or actual use? I'm still having a difficult time in visualizing this.

 

[Gyakuto]

Is it more a leg redirection using your own leg to parry (shin block sorta, can be done arcing to the inside or outside) or a jamming technique (using your leg to jam their kick before it completes), usually using your ball of foot or heel on their knee/thigh or their back hip?

Like a Mikazuki geri (crescent kick) with the knee/shin?

 

[_Simon_]

Anyone have an example of this in kata or actual use? I'm still having a difficult time in visualizing this.

Just spent like 20 minutes looking on Youtube, there's barely anything haha! But found this, it'll do:

Basically circling with your hip out to in or viceversa to parry the front kick

 

[_Simon_]

Like a Mikazuki geri (crescent kick) with the knee/shin?

Yeh pretty much!

 

[Fungus]

Utilising legs and knees in differents ways to block (close gap to your elbows) is I think a great skill and better han lowering your guard and beeing vulnerable to head kicks. I personally like these techniques although it's maybe not as fast, it requires that you read the opponent early. This is one of the areas I want to develop myself in and experiment with in sparring.

 

[Fungus]

I recall that one our instructors showed this as a "better" way than just a "brute shin block", which is the last resort. So if there is time, redirecting the opponents knee in fligt. But I think this difficult or more easy dependong on how circular their mawashi geri is, or if there is any gap between their legs.

This thread now gave me lots of ideas to experiment with for next sparring session, thanks!

 

[_Simon_]

I recall that one our instructors showed this as a "better" way than just a "brute shin block", which is the last resort. So if there is time, redirecting the opponents knee in fligt. But I think this difficult or more easy dependong on how circular their mawashi geri is, or if there is any gap between their legs.

This thread now gave me lots of ideas to experiment with for next sparring session, thanks!

Yeah it's really fun to explore. And you can even get a good hook on their leg and pull them off balance (with in-to-out, you hook with your lower shin/top of foot junction), follow up with gedan mawashi or something funkier

 

[JowGaWolf]

Just spent like 20 minutes looking on Youtube, there's barely anything haha! But found this, it'll do:

Basically circling with your hip out to in or viceversa to parry the front kick

Thanks. Youtube has been crap lately. Too much content geared for making money so the good martial arts stuff is becoming more difficult to find. Less about sharing knowledge and experiences and more about getting more viewers.

 

[Hot Lunch]

Bingo! Very similar to this. Picture an oblique kick from jkd. But instead of kicking straight at the opponents knee you are kicking sideways almost crossing your other leg. It looks like you are trying to deflect the front kick with the bottom of your foot but you are really using the shin to parry it. It's more a parry than a block(atleast the one I was shown) the shin deflects the kicking leg and pushes the opponent a bit off center then you can counter. Is this technique in your style? What is it called? I only know it as what I wrote the name as, it was shown to me by a shotokan practitioner. I think it would be a very useful move in kickboxing or tkd even karate sparring.

I'm Shotokan, and I haven't heard of this one. What you're describing just seems to be an alternative bunkai for gedan mawashi geri.

 

[Fungus]

Some things are difficult to name I think, maybe it can be seen as a combination of a "uchi hiza uke" and then perhaps almost a "kansetsu geri", if you range is right it can goto the supporting leg of the attacker immediately after blocking the attacking leg with the kneed?

Combinations rarely have an specific names as far as I know.

 

[Tigerwarrior]

Just spent like 20 minutes looking on Youtube, there's barely anything haha! But found this, it'll do:

Basically circling with your hip out to in or viceversa to parry the front kick

Thanks bro! This is the technique I was shown. There is also one from an inward position too. I was shown this and a variation. Basically on the variation you chamber your leg up like you would a front kick, then you use that leg in a motion that looks kind of like a figure 4 but there is no lock and it's done from the front, you kick to the side with your foot so picture it like this, I chamber my right leg straight up same way as a front kick then kick to my left crossing my left leg almost but from the front, when executed correctly the shin will make contact with the opponents leg and parry the kick.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

That is the kick deflection from the Isshinryu Wansu kata.

The first deflection kick comes just after 15 seconds in. It's subtle. We sometimes show it more of a knee lift, but it's the same anti-kick kick.

Or this one. 31 seconds in. Our founder, Tatsuo Shimabuku.

 

[isshinryuronin]

That is the kick deflection from the Isshinryu Wansu kata.

The first deflection kick comes just after 15 seconds in. It's subtle. We sometimes show it more of a knee lift, but it's the same anti-kick kick.

Or this one. 31 seconds in. Our founder, Tatsuo Shimabuku.

The man on the left of the bottom picture is my first sensei, mentor and friend, Bob Ozman. RIP.