Gangster 4 Life?

[punisher73]

Well, after having a look at the the links there (thanks jks9199), particularly the first site, and then going about clicking on various links, seeing what amounted to a LOT of hard work by members of gangs and a LOT of hate, I stumbed upon this video:

Which has something to do with "skinhead girls". Now, I'll admit it. I'm about as clueless when it comes to these things as anyone can be. I must be missing something. These girls look to be quite innocent and nice. There must be some other meaning to this term "skinhead girl" that I don't know.

There are the racist "skinheads" and there is a movement of skinheads that have nothing to do with race and include people of all kinds in them. They kind of like the fellowship, music etc. I think it is a spin off of the english "punk culture" that was popular a way back. I'm not completely familiar with it, but I think that is what the video was about, and NOT the trash white hate groups that call themselves that.

 

[newGuy12]

There are the racist "skinheads" and there is a movement of skinheads that have nothing to do with race and include people of all kinds in them. They kind of like the fellowship, music etc. I think it is a spin off of the english "punk culture" that was popular a way back. I'm not completely familiar with it, but I think that is what the video was about, and NOT the trash white hate groups that call themselves that.

Indeed. What you say is true. As the "plot" thickens here, growing into a HUGE number of gangs / cultures, I tried to make some sense of this. You see, I once was a casual friend of a woman who had a very nice hair cut (in my opinion), and I even mentioned this once. I said something to the effect of, "Well, that is a very becoming hair cut that you have." The lady said, "Oh, it is a Chelsea." I let it go at that.

Now, I saw this link:

http://www.adl.org/hate_symbols/skin_chelsea.asp

This was some years ago that we were in a class together or something, I can't remember. I saw that link, and thought, "Oh, my, she was an associate of some kind of New-Nazi group or something".

But certainly not. She would not do such a thing. No. As you say, there is some kind of culture that is a "skinhead" type of thing that is not racist. This is very strange.

 

[punisher73]

So what are the solutions? Highly unlikely that a kid that plays these games, is going to have the cash to buy it on their own. So, that means that the unsuspecting or uncaring parent buys it.

But, getting back to the solutions. What do we do? Ban the games? Somehow get a law passed to have them removed from the stores? But if we stop and think about it, pretty much everything we see today has some sort of negative effect. Billboards advertise smoking and drinking. You can't turn on any TV show without seeing someone getting shot, stabbed, beat up or 2 people in bed.

We certainly can't be in every home, making sure parents are raising their kids right.

I don't think there IS an easy solution. Part of the problem is that companies want to make as much money as possible no matter what impact it has. Do I think responsible adults shouldn't be allowed to play games like that and they should all be banned? I don't think that is really the answer either.

Those games have a mature rating on them, you shouldn't be able to buy them or play them if you are under age. Just like at the movies, I know the local theaters here check id's for R-rated movies.

Another aspect is alot more complex. How do you create a safe environment for kids to play and learn morals/values that might not be taught at home? MANY communities used to have rec centers where kids could go and have that, in the past even schools used to be open in the summer time for kids to do arts/crafts or play sports. We need more active community programs that can give the kids the support they need that they might not be getting from home. Something that offers them a positive rolemodel other than what they see on TV or the movies. When funding gets low, those are the types of programs that usually get cut first. I think if people TRULY want to solve the problem, than ALL aspects of my/your community have to work together on it and not just keep pointing fingers. This shouldn't be a political issue, it shouldn't be about race, it shouldn't be about who does what. It SHOULD BE, that our kids are dying everyday because they are making the wrong choices. The time to get kids is right before they are in a gang or right as they are joining, it is VERY difficult once fully into the gang.

 

[Empty Hands]

No. As you say, there is some kind of culture that is a "skinhead" type of thing that is not racist. This is very strange.

Not strange at all, when you know the history. The harmonious skinheads came first, and are particularly associated with egalitarian anarchism and the punk music scene. The neo-nazi skins came later, and through intense media exposure, they've become the only "skinheads" anyone knows about. The old school skinheads call the neo-nazis "boneheads" to distinguish themselves.

The whole thing seems to be on the wane though. I've had a completely shaved head on my relatively young white guy body for over a year now and no one has ever associated me with skinheads of any variety.

 

[thardey]

Not strange at all, when you know the history. The harmonious skinheads came first, and are particularly associated with egalitarian anarchism and the punk music scene. The neo-nazi skins came later, and through intense media exposure, they've become the only "skinheads" anyone knows about. The old school skinheads call the neo-nazis "boneheads" to distinguish themselves.

The whole thing seems to be on the wane though. I've had a completely shaved head on my relatively young white guy body for over a year now and no one has ever associated me with skinheads of any variety.

Same here, I shave my head most every summer, and nobody has associated me with any kind of racism.

In fact, once I went down to help out at an orphanage in Mexico while bald. The kids there thought it was cool, I never caught any uncomfortable feelings for it in the community.

 

[newGuy12]

Its interesting to me, because I have recently got a haircut -- in the Dojang we were doing some escape techniques. My partner there grabbed TWO big fists of hair, then I escaped. Yes, it was painful, and some hair came out.

I then walked in the next class, and said, "That hold that you did, you will not be able to apply it now!" -- haha -- my Sabum has a bald head, and the Sabum of our "sister school" which is not too far down the road is also bald headed. But they are not white men.

I myself do not favour a bald head, but intend to keep my hair very short from now on, not paying a barber to cut it, but instead cutting it myself with clippers, to save money.

I suppose that there are MANY types of fashions that people engage in, having no idea whatsoever that they have some connection with some gangland culture!

 

[FearlessFreep]

I have long hair for a guY (longer than shoulder length) and I once joked in class that I would be the first guy to tap for getting his hair pulled However I told my wife that if I ever start losing it I ill just cut it all off bald rather than fight appearances.... and not care about what it might mean to someone else.

 

[jks9199]

There are the racist "skinheads" and there is a movement of skinheads that have nothing to do with race and include people of all kinds in them. They kind of like the fellowship, music etc. I think it is a spin off of the english "punk culture" that was popular a way back. I'm not completely familiar with it, but I think that is what the video was about, and NOT the trash white hate groups that call themselves that.

The Skinhead movement is complicated.

Very briefly, the original Skinhead movement was a response to class differences in England. They eventually became linked with several anti-immigrant movements, and in the USA, they became very strongly identified with white supremacists. At the same time, the SHARP (Skin Heads Against Racial Prejudice) movement arose. SHARPs are every bit as violent; they're just not so picky about who their victims are.

 

[jks9199]

Same here, I shave my head most every summer, and nobody has associated me with any kind of racism.

In fact, once I went down to help out at an orphanage in Mexico while bald. The kids there thought it was cool, I never caught any uncomfortable feelings for it in the community.

There's a lot more to being a Skin than shaving your head. Lots of people have shaved heads, for a variety of reasons. Whether it's a racist Skinhead group or SHARP, there's a lifestyle and set of beliefs associated with it.

 

[thardey]

There's a lot more to being a Skin than shaving your head. Lots of people have shaved heads, for a variety of reasons. Whether it's a racist Skinhead group or SHARP, there's a lifestyle and set of beliefs associated with it.

Yup, and obviously my culture and lifestyle are radically different. You can't just see someone with a shaved head, even a woman, and associate them with a movement.

 

[Jade Tigress]

Jade Tigress wrote:


Did you read the research I talked about linking violent video games/TV with violence in youth today? No one ever said that playing a video game produces a killer in and of itself. The American Psychological Assoc. stated in their research "Psychological research confirms that violent video games can increase children's aggression, but that parents moderate the negative effects. So, now you have a bunch of kids that don't have parents raising them showing them reality from fantasy and many of them are playing the game up to 5 hours A NIGHT! Do you see how the downward spiral can start? Do you know what the latest 'Grand Theft Auto" is about? You get to plan home invasions/robberies, do drive by shootings, pimp, take drugs, you even get to carry around 2 GUNS to make your job easier. What kind of influence do you think that has on a child that doesn't have someone at home teaching right from wrong and he plays that game non-stop?

No, I didn't read it. I'm quite aware of GTA. My 14-year-old has the game and he'd no sooner think to make it a reality than I would. Like I said, there are too many variables to call playing a video game THE SAME AS inviting a gangster into your home.

I do see how a downward spiral can start, but it doesn't start with a video game. IMO the downward spiral has more to do with neglect and no supervision. Parents who are too busy doing their own partying or tending to their own busy lives. Isn't that what gangs are about? Belonging. Acceptance. Protection. Things parents are supposed to provide.

If a parent provides these things their child can play GTA all they want and not get guns and shoot people, take drugs and break into houses.

BTW, when my son begged for this game, my husband and I had a little talk with him about the content and how we felt about it. We limit his play time, and he actually prefers playing outside with friends if they're around.

So again, the problem lies not with game, but with parenting. In addition, I have a hard time believing any teenager doesn't know right from wrong whether they're parents taught them or not. EVERYONE knows killing is wrong. Adolescents and teens know you will go to jail if you kill someone, break into their house, take drugs, etc. even if their parents never told them so. It's all over the TV they watch all the time. You go to jail for "bad" things right?

So, why do kids do it? Why do they join gangs? Why do they kill? Because the need for love and acceptance is worth the risk. What kind of pats on the back from fellow gang members do you think the kid who made the quote about video games got from fellow gang members? Ah, but he's a hard *** right? And the kudos is worth it to him. That's a really sad life, and it didn't start with a video game.

 

[newGuy12]

So, why do kids do it? Why do they join gangs? Why do they kill? Because the need for love and acceptance is worth the risk. What kind of pats on the back from fellow gang members do you think the kid who made the quote about video games got from fellow gang members? Ah, but he's a hard *** right? And the kudos is worth it to him. That's a really sad life, and it didn't start with a video game.

I just wonder how much economics plays into this. What I mean is (as was mentioned in another thread somewhere in this community), when I was in middle school, typically everyone's Mother stayed home, only one parent actually worked outside the home. Now, maybe the young people look for a substitute for this parent they would normally see so often? I'm just making stabs in the dark here.

Has anyone seen any of the so-called "straight-edge" kids?

 

[Jade Tigress]

I wonder too. Times have changed, that's for sure. But with so many homes with both parents working, or children of divorce in a single parent home, why do some go some way and some the other? I think it's a matter of involvement. I was a stay-at-home mom for 14 years. A woman my age that I work with has 3 wonderful teenage boys she is raising on her own, but she is very involved in with them regardless. It's a complicated situation to be sure.

I'm know "straight-edge". A very close friend of mine is "straight-edge", he's 36 and has been straight edge since kicking a bad drug addiction in his teens.

 

[MJS]

I don't think there IS an easy solution. Part of the problem is that companies want to make as much money as possible no matter what impact it has. Do I think responsible adults shouldn't be allowed to play games like that and they should all be banned? I don't think that is really the answer either.

Those games have a mature rating on them, you shouldn't be able to buy them or play them if you are under age. Just like at the movies, I know the local theaters here check id's for R-rated movies.

Good points. This goes back to when I said that I doubt the average kid who plays these games, is going to be able to afford it on their own. So, chances are, even if the "M" warning is present, the parent will a) not care or b) have no idea what it means.

Another aspect is alot more complex. How do you create a safe environment for kids to play and learn morals/values that might not be taught at home? MANY communities used to have rec centers where kids could go and have that, in the past even schools used to be open in the summer time for kids to do arts/crafts or play sports. We need more active community programs that can give the kids the support they need that they might not be getting from home. Something that offers them a positive rolemodel other than what they see on TV or the movies. When funding gets low, those are the types of programs that usually get cut first. I think if people TRULY want to solve the problem, than ALL aspects of my/your community have to work together on it and not just keep pointing fingers. This shouldn't be a political issue, it shouldn't be about race, it shouldn't be about who does what. It SHOULD BE, that our kids are dying everyday because they are making the wrong choices. The time to get kids is right before they are in a gang or right as they are joining, it is VERY difficult once fully into the gang.

Cant disagree with that.

Mike

 

[MJS]

Just to expand a bit on my last post. I have said many times, that kids will learn what they live. In other words, if there is no discipline or the parents are not raising the kids right, the kids will not know any better.

Will the game alone cause someone to go nuts? IMO no. I feel, as Jade said, that its a bunch of things in the mix.

 

[shesulsa]

They call their gangs "family." In the gang unit they experience rites of passage, lessons of loyalty and betrayal, power struggles, thrillseeking action. Each member knows if someone screws them over even in the slightest manner they have a large group of people who would kill for him/her without even a thought.

They defend their territory as though it were a nation so they can feel safe being themselves in some areas, convey their sense of power over people and have something to defend.

What does that sound like to you?