kidswarrior
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Good article on the proliferation of gangs in our own communities: http://www.nea.org/ref?/gangs
There's a quiz on your gang IQ at the end, also.
There's a quiz on your gang IQ at the end, also.
Gangster 4 Life?
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I love how they always seem to forget to mention that gangs have some really ****ty retirement plans...........
Interesting article. I know there are gangs all over our *nice suburban area*. I see them. I also believe there are alot of naive kids who like to mimic the gangster style but have no idea what anything means. It could lead to an attack by a "real" opposing gang member, such as the kid in the article that got punched in the face for wearing the wrong color.
Video games, I disagree. Letting your kid play Grand Theft Auto is not like inviting a gangster into your home. There was ONE video game related quote by a kid who killed 3 people and I believe you have to already be *in* for something like that to be even remotely linked to actual murders. You have to already be hardened with a disregard for life, I don't think video games are the start of it.
I would say as parents we need to make sure our children are not inadvertently sending a message that they are a gang member by trying to be *in style*. Check those little nuances and explain to your child what could happen if they're mistaken for an enemy gang member. You wanna wear baggie pants? Fine. Keep the pocket tucked in. Wanna wear a baseball cap? Fine. Choose one nondescript, etc. And make sure you give your children the attention and love they need so there is no attraction to gangs for acceptance.
Video games, I disagree. Letting your kid play Grand Theft Auto is not like inviting a gangster into your home. There was ONE video game related quote by a kid who killed 3 people and I believe you have to already be *in* for something like that to be even remotely linked to actual murders. You have to already be hardened with a disregard for life, I don't think video games are the start of it.
I would say as parents we need to make sure our children are not inadvertently sending a message that they are a gang member by trying to be *in style*. Check those little nuances and explain to your child what could happen if they're mistaken for an enemy gang member. You wanna wear baggie pants? Fine. Keep the pocket tucked in. Wanna wear a baseball cap? Fine. Choose one nondescript, etc. And make sure you give your children the attention and love they need so there is no attraction to gangs for acceptance.
punisher73
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I just recently got back from a 3-day course on Gangs by Lou Savelli. It was VERY informative. He likes to call the recent trend "Thugvertisement" in which kids emmulate gangs and dont' really know what they are doing and advertisements are trying to cash in on the gang members to sell products (Snoop Dogg selling Dodge cars or 50 Cent selling Vita-water). For example the hat turn, rolling up the pant leg. There was even a case of someone doing a "dance move" at a school dance and got shot over it. Why? One is the "crip walk" and the "blood walk". The kid just thought it was a cool dance move and was doing it, well the dance is also in part an insult to the rival gang. Gang members aren't going to take the time to figure out if you are a rival or just a kid who likes the "rap culture" (and doesn't know that most of them are gang members--snoop dogg, 50 cent, etc.).
Video Games DO make a difference. Read some of the research that Lt. Grossman has done on violence and youth. The male brain isn't matured until age 22. That means that for a young person, they DO have a hard time completely seperating fact from fiction. The US military created there firearm simulator based on nintendo's "duck hunter" Why? They couldn't figure out how all these kids who had NEVER shot a gun before entering the military were getting expert marksman qualifications and they figured out that it was due to their video game training.
The young kid who shot and killed 3 cops and later said "Life is like a video game, you have to die sometime". Killed those people with headshots. Did he ever practice firearms training? Nope, all video game training. Those games are designed as a "first person shooter" which means you take the role of the main character and think and like that character. Is it the ONLY cause? No, not at all, but it CAN BE a big contributing factor.
Playing video games may in and of itself make someone a sharper marksman, but I don't believe in and of itself it produces cold-blooded killers. That takes alot more variables to account for.
Actually, it's a so-so article. It's got a lot of misinformation, and lumps things together that aren't really the same, while failing to mention other important issues. Same concerns with the "quiz."
For example, there are 6 primary or major gang alliances in the US; Bloods and Crips (primarily West Coast by origin; UBN is a different issue and is East Coast), People Nation and Folk Nation (Chicago/Midwest origin), and Nortenos and Surenos (Latino, out of Los Angeles originally). While all of the gangs and alliances have a presence throughout the US, and there are weak alliances of the alliances, that doesn't make a Crip a member of the People Nation. They just manage to get along, and share some idealogy. Just because MS-13 favors blue, they aren't Crips; they're (loosely) Sureno, hence the 13. (Nortenos represent 14.) Some of the alliances, like Mexican Mafia, are primarily prison-based. Someone may rep Gangster Disciple on the street, but claim Folk in prison.
Even more importantly, gangs are very much a local phenomenon, no matter if they're tied to a national (or international) organization. Especially thanks to the glorification of the gangsta lifestyle in popular media, you get kids claiming to be part of a nationwide gang, even if they have no true connection. (This doesn't stop them from committing the same crimes; it just makes federal-level RICO cases difficult against street gangs.) Yes -- this can be a bad thing... especially if they encounter the real deal and don't respond correctly. The "rules" for a particular set of Crips in LA may not be even close to the "same" set in Baltimore. In the Northern Virginia area, EVERY gang is multi-racial (with the glaring exception of white supremacist groups).
One thing I completely agree with, though, is that anywhere that tries to claim they have no gangs is in denial.
You might consider checking the following sites:
www.knowgangs.com
www.gangorus.com
www.vgia.org
www.gomargin.us/
www.nagia.org
Also, the Gangland series on History Channel has been pretty good.
On another note, a 19-year-old was shot right outside the Kohl's store at the mall my daughter and I go to most. It's closest to our location. He crawled into the store and pleaded for help. Two suspects were caught but they will not confirm if it was gang-related. Knowing the location of the mall, I bet it was.
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Glad at least that you and yours are OK *hug*
OP
kidswarrior
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Well, when I said 'good' I meant good for prompting thought/discussion, which it has done somewhat. Didn't mean infallible, as I also saw the things you went on to detail. But then I'm not an expert.
Most of the shootings and drug issues that take place in my state are most likely stemming from gangs. I agree with this part from the article:
Home is a big part in the prevention of many things. I do disagree with the video game theory though. I mean, people have been blaming suicide on certain types of music for a long time. But, I watched horror movies, when I was a kid and didn't run around the neighborhood hacking pets, chasing my younger sister with a knife, etc. I play GTA every now and then, and I don't run around shooting things up. I listened to rock/metal when I was young, and I still listen to certain rock groups, and I don't think about taking my life. I also watched cartoons when I was young. Yet, I never held a lit firecracker in my hand, or jumped off the roof of my house, thinking nothing would happen to me, because the cartoon character did it, and nothing happened to them. Why? Because I was raised right by my parents. You need to seperate fact from fiction. Do you 'get into it' when you're playing certain games? Sure, but again, people who do 'get into it' will most likely show some sort of sign. The next question is...why are the parents not noticing?
Home is a big part in the prevention of many things. I do disagree with the video game theory though. I mean, people have been blaming suicide on certain types of music for a long time. But, I watched horror movies, when I was a kid and didn't run around the neighborhood hacking pets, chasing my younger sister with a knife, etc. I play GTA every now and then, and I don't run around shooting things up. I listened to rock/metal when I was young, and I still listen to certain rock groups, and I don't think about taking my life. I also watched cartoons when I was young. Yet, I never held a lit firecracker in my hand, or jumped off the roof of my house, thinking nothing would happen to me, because the cartoon character did it, and nothing happened to them. Why? Because I was raised right by my parents. You need to seperate fact from fiction. Do you 'get into it' when you're playing certain games? Sure, but again, people who do 'get into it' will most likely show some sort of sign. The next question is...why are the parents not noticing?
I notice that a whole huge load of gangs aren't included. The Khmer, Vietnamese, Chinese, Outlaw Biker, Russian and Aryan ones just freaking leap out by their absence. The not-terribly hidden message is that "gangs" are made of Scary Negroes and Shifty Hispanics.
Further, a "normal" criminal might mend his evil ways. But once a kid has been touched by Gangs he is tainted for life and is irredeemable.
It goes without saying that that is B.S. A lot of guys hit their thirties or gals get weighed down with a child or two. The life isn't attractive any longer, and they move on to other things.
The information in the piece is interesting at best and often misleading.
Further, a "normal" criminal might mend his evil ways. But once a kid has been touched by Gangs he is tainted for life and is irredeemable.
It goes without saying that that is B.S. A lot of guys hit their thirties or gals get weighed down with a child or two. The life isn't attractive any longer, and they move on to other things.
The information in the piece is interesting at best and often misleading.
Nor am I. I'm just a gang investigator. There's plenty I don't know.
Quite a few gang "experts" make the rounds of conferences and talking head opportunities based on their experience from several years before. Interestingly enough -- the people I think of as experts (other than in the court qualified sense) are the last folks to claim to be an expert. They're too busy working current cases and keeping up with current trends to consider themselves an expert.
(I know... it's a common phenomenon. I'm trying to remember who it was that wrote an article or opinion piece about the temptations to expound way beyond your area of expertise when the press asks...)
Very few bangers ever completely leave the gang life. They may be inactive, they may be an "old head" who just give advice... but it's a lifestyle. It doesn't change anymore than people change religion... or many of us would really drop martial arts. We may be busy, we may not train as much as we once did -- but it'll always be part of our life.
The ones we can catch and reroute are the ones who are on the periphery or just getting involved.
You did have a good point; the article ignored lots of the other gangs that are out there. It made a token reference to the Aryan Nation, but no mention of Nazi Low Riders, or the OMGs, or Asian gangs, or... It's a laundry list. And you can't forget neighborhood gangs and crews -- which are generally more territory based, but just as bad.
punisher73
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Just curious why you had to throw the race card out there on it? "Every type of gang out there" wasn't the scope of the article. The author wrote about his experience (which some was a little off) with gangs which he talked about. Also, if you go into a school today (NEA--teachers, who the article was for) which gangs are causing the majority of problems? They aren't usually the outlaw biker gangs or the asian gangs, it's the ones talked about in the article. When is the last time you have heard or read about a kid getting shot in school over wearing a "support local 2" shirt instead of a "support local 81" shirt?
If you really want to point the fingers and find things that aren't there, than look at your own comments...
So, you said that black women get out of gangs because they get pregnant and have children? "Gal" is a derogatory slang term for a black female, the same as calling a black male "Boy". Did you mean it? Probably not, but there isn't always a skeleton in the closet. How about giving advice on how to stop gangs and get kids out of them before they join?
Jade Tigress wrote:
Did you read the research I talked about linking violent video games/TV with violence in youth today? No one ever said that playing a video game produces a killer in and of itself. The American Psychological Assoc. stated in their research "Psychological research confirms that violent video games can increase children's aggression, but that parents moderate the negative effects. So, now you have a bunch of kids that don't have parents raising them showing them reality from fantasy and many of them are playing the game up to 5 hours A NIGHT! Do you see how the downward spiral can start? Do you know what the latest 'Grand Theft Auto" is about? You get to plan home invasions/robberies, do drive by shootings, pimp, take drugs, you even get to carry around 2 GUNS to make your job easier. What kind of influence do you think that has on a child that doesn't have someone at home teaching right from wrong and he plays that game non-stop?
"The race card" is a wonderful term that makes conservatives feel all warm and fuzzy and secure. Any mention of race can be dismissed if you say "Oh, he's just another bleeding heart playing the race card." Sometimes people bring up race when it's not relevant in an attempt to get guilt or their group's imaginary superiority to trump whatever argument another might make.
Such is definitely not the case here. The article supposedly identifies the important traits of gangs and how they work. They define them as a bunch of Black and Latino groups. They hit the point repeatedly. As far as they're concerned gangs are made up of Central Americans and Blacks. Period. Outlaw bikers aren't gangs. Aryans aren't gangs. Asian criminals aren't gangs. Russians aren't in gangs. Gangs are somehow worse than other criminal groups and only Scary Negroes and Scary Latins are gangsters.
This is a severe systematic error in the article. When the whole piece is designed to inform the public about what gangs are and how to identify and deal with their members it undermines the whole piece. The entire message pivots on race and two "races" in particular.
Let's turn it around. Suppose I did an article on terrorism in the United States. I'd start with the Molly Maguires, the 19 teens through 1930s Anarchists and the Klan. I'd go on and talk about John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, Sarah Jane Moore and the 1960s Minutemen. I'd toss in a bunch of stuff about neo-Nazis, Army of God, the murders of doctors and nurses at women's health clinics. I'd spend a lot of time talking about the Oklahoma City bombing. Maybe there'd be a mention of Charles Manson for variety.
I'd have a quiz that featured the different kinds of crosses and Christian imagery they used. And yes, the Anarchists did. I'd talk about exactly which European countries the terrorists' ancestors came from and now they fell into "Catholic", "Protestant" and "Radical Europeanist" camps. There would be a passing mention of Arabs with anti-American sentiments somewhere near the end.
Any reasonable person would say "That's completely unfair. It's designed to make people believe that White Christians are the only terrorists."
That's right. It would be designed to leave that impression. And it would be unfair and deceptive by omission.
That is the most glaring problem with the article. And since it had to be vetted it is a systemic problem with the group that put it up.
Such is definitely not the case here. The article supposedly identifies the important traits of gangs and how they work. They define them as a bunch of Black and Latino groups. They hit the point repeatedly. As far as they're concerned gangs are made up of Central Americans and Blacks. Period. Outlaw bikers aren't gangs. Aryans aren't gangs. Asian criminals aren't gangs. Russians aren't in gangs. Gangs are somehow worse than other criminal groups and only Scary Negroes and Scary Latins are gangsters.
This is a severe systematic error in the article. When the whole piece is designed to inform the public about what gangs are and how to identify and deal with their members it undermines the whole piece. The entire message pivots on race and two "races" in particular.
Let's turn it around. Suppose I did an article on terrorism in the United States. I'd start with the Molly Maguires, the 19 teens through 1930s Anarchists and the Klan. I'd go on and talk about John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, Sarah Jane Moore and the 1960s Minutemen. I'd toss in a bunch of stuff about neo-Nazis, Army of God, the murders of doctors and nurses at women's health clinics. I'd spend a lot of time talking about the Oklahoma City bombing. Maybe there'd be a mention of Charles Manson for variety.
I'd have a quiz that featured the different kinds of crosses and Christian imagery they used. And yes, the Anarchists did. I'd talk about exactly which European countries the terrorists' ancestors came from and now they fell into "Catholic", "Protestant" and "Radical Europeanist" camps. There would be a passing mention of Arabs with anti-American sentiments somewhere near the end.
Any reasonable person would say "That's completely unfair. It's designed to make people believe that White Christians are the only terrorists."
That's right. It would be designed to leave that impression. And it would be unfair and deceptive by omission.
That is the most glaring problem with the article. And since it had to be vetted it is a systemic problem with the group that put it up.
Tellner, I feel your passion on finger-pointing to groups in general and the over-generalization leading to a nod in the direction of ethnicity.
But I want to tell you something from one poster to another.
I *really* *really* wish ... you would use a term other than "negro."
Yes, I understand your intent; yes I get the context of sentence, para, post; etcetera. But the history of the word and its bastardizations (which, btw, are most definitely considered racial slurs) does not lend a favorable tone to its usage.
Perhaps there are our brothers of other colors here who don't mind the term ... but ... well, gee, can't ya just used African American?
I'm white and I'M offended by the word "negro."
But I want to tell you something from one poster to another.
I *really* *really* wish ... you would use a term other than "negro."
Yes, I understand your intent; yes I get the context of sentence, para, post; etcetera. But the history of the word and its bastardizations (which, btw, are most definitely considered racial slurs) does not lend a favorable tone to its usage.
Perhaps there are our brothers of other colors here who don't mind the term ... but ... well, gee, can't ya just used African American?
I'm white and I'M offended by the word "negro."
So what are the solutions? Highly unlikely that a kid that plays these games, is going to have the cash to buy it on their own. So, that means that the unsuspecting or uncaring parent buys it.
But, getting back to the solutions. What do we do? Ban the games? Somehow get a law passed to have them removed from the stores? But if we stop and think about it, pretty much everything we see today has some sort of negative effect. Billboards advertise smoking and drinking. You can't turn on any TV show without seeing someone getting shot, stabbed, beat up or 2 people in bed.
We certainly can't be in every home, making sure parents are raising their kids right.
punisher73
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Again, the article is written for TEACHERS in school. They identify that there are TWO MAIN gangs in america, the "people nation" and the folk nation" That is truth, it is not based on color. It improperly misdentifies some of the subsets in their assessment though, but that is a FACT that those are the two main gangs in America. It later talks about ONE MAN and his background investigating the MS-13. Again, it is his background and experience with the gang. You didn't answer when was the last time a student or kid got shot in school or at a school dance for wearing the wrong "motorcycle" shirt. Why? Let's break down the stats according to the NYGC survey in 2004-05.
731,500 Gang members in the US
21,500 SEPERATE gangs
The average age is 18
90% are male, 10% female
49% of gang members are hispanic/latino (358,435 people)
34% of gang members are african american (248,710 people)
12% of gang members are caucasion (87,780 people)
5% of gang members are asian or other from another ethnic group (36,575 people)
In LA alone there are 1350 street gangs
150,000 gang members
Crips have 280 gangs, and 35,000 members
Bloods have 100 gangs, and 15,000 members
Hispanic gangs have 680 gangs, and 84,000 members
White gangs have 14 gangs, and 1844 members
What are most teachers going to be encountering in schools? 83% of professed gang members fall into what categories? Why not start looking at why gangs are largely minorities coming from the black and hispanic communities and helping to prevent it than whining about the fact that 17% are not from those 2 groups? ALL GANGS REGARDLESS OF RACE OR COLOR are DANGEROUS, the article never says any different. If you look at school violence (which again is the target audience--teachers) who are the gangs that you are dealing with the majority of the time?
shesulsa, I understand. When you're talking about racists and how they think you intentionally hide the point if you use "African-American", "Just people, and oh by the way they're Black" or "Member of the African Diaspora" or any other nuanced sensitive term. This is about their iconography. It would be dishonest to make it warm and fluffy and comfortable.
There isn't a pleasant friendly way to do it that still makes the point. I've tried. If there were the discussion wouldn't be necessary. Covering up all words that might have anything less than a harmonious "Isn't it nice that we're all friends now" tone is a lie.
There isn't a pleasant friendly way to do it that still makes the point. I've tried. If there were the discussion wouldn't be necessary. Covering up all words that might have anything less than a harmonious "Isn't it nice that we're all friends now" tone is a lie.
newGuy12
Master of Arts
Well, after having a look at the the links there (thanks jks9199), particularly the first site, and then going about clicking on various links, seeing what amounted to a LOT of hard work by members of gangs and a LOT of hate, I stumbed upon this video:
Which has something to do with "skinhead girls". Now, I'll admit it. I'm about as clueless when it comes to these things as anyone can be. I must be missing something. These girls look to be quite innocent and nice. There must be some other meaning to this term "skinhead girl" that I don't know.
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