From Brazilian Jiu Jitsu to Japanese Jiu Jitsu

[Gerry Seymour]

when I briefly did jjj, it looked exactly like judo, except when you got them on the floor you punched them repeatedly in the groin

So, it starts like Judo and ends like Ameri-do-te?

 

[Headhunter]

One thing I'll add is this. If you do love bjj so much maybe look for another school. Because as we've said that amount of injury that quick is not common. Maybe another school there'll be less injuries. Or it could simply be your body can't take that sort of training. I don't mean that as an insult at all. Everyone is built differently. I know I could never do gymnastics or I'd end up in serious pain. Maybe that's the same with you in bjj. No shame in it just the way things go

 

[jobo]

So, it starts like Judo and ends like Ameri-do-te?

exactly starts like Judo and ends like a vicious beating in a back alley

 

[Deleted member 40465]

Thank you Tony Dismukes, drop bear, jobo, gpseymour and wab25 for addressing the questions I actually asked and providing helpful information! This will give me some idea what to look for.

 

[Headhunter]

One thing I'll add is this. If you do love bjj so much maybe look for another school. Because as we've said that amount of injury that quick is not common. Maybe another school there'll be less injuries. Or it could simply be your body can't take that sort of training. I don't mean that as an insult at all. Everyone is built differently. I know I could never do gymnastics or I'd end up in serious pain. Maybe that's the same with you in bjj. No shame in it just the way things go

Don't really know what was funny about this comment but okay

 

[Gweilo]

Be it Brazilian or Japanese, this video will help.

 

[CKB]

I wonder if OP has considered Hapkido? It is also another jujutsu-derived system (probably, the documented history of the art is a bit cloudy), that is quite versatile in terms of technical content.

I currently train in Hapkido myself, and while there are dozens of different styles of Hapkido, making generalizations difficult, the styles I have been exposed to can be summed up as containing the arm and wrist locks of traditional japanese jiu jitsu, the throws, chokes and some (but in general very little) of the newaza of Judo, and many of the kicks of taekwondo with some unique kicks thrown in as well. In the style I train, we also use boxing style punches as well, but my impression is that that is not as common among Hapkido styles.

We also spar quite a bit with a not too restrictive ruleset, although not too hard (full contact to body, light contact to head, and with controlled arm/wristlocks, and without dangerous throws, i.e. mostly judo type throws), and with head and chest guard, elbow and shin pads, and shooto-type gloves, enabling gripping, but still having a bit of padding, adding a degree of aliveness to our training.

It will not make you into the worlds best fighter, or even give you the most effective training if fighting effectiveness is your goal (for that, I would advice you to go train MMA), but it is also far from the worst thing you can train among the huge selection of martial art styles out there. And most important for me at least, it will not put a huge strain on my body compared to several much more competitive arts I have trained before.

 

[CKB]

Oh, and «full contact to the body» means that while it is allowed, we don’t really go that hard on each other in regular practice, to be honest.

 

[Gweilo]

I currently train in Hapkido myself, and while there are dozens of different styles of Hapkido,

I do not mean this in a derogatory manner, but as far as I am concerned there is only 1 style of Hapkido, and many teachers that say they teach the art, may I ask, what was the very 1st technique you was taught in Hapkido?.

 

[CKB]

I do not remember what the first thing *I* was taught in Hapkido is, as it was a long time ago, but in general, the first thing both my grand master and myself teaches beginners is deflection and diagonal movement.

As to there being only one style of Hapkido, I think I would like you to elaborate a bit on that before I give you my own take on the matter. What I can say before that, is that my own grand master was taught by one of the original students of
Choi Yong-sul, making myself three degrees of seperation from Choi Yong-sul.

 

[Gweilo]

I do not remember what the first thing *I* was taught in Hapkido is, as it was a long time ago, but in general, the first thing both my grand master and myself teaches beginners is deflection and diagonal movement.

As to there being only one style of Hapkido, I think I would like you to elaborate a bit on that before I give you my own take on the matter. What I can say before that, is that my own grand master was taught by one of the original students of
Choi Yong-sul, making myself four degrees of seperation from Choi Yong-sul.

Yes I can do that, I first started training in Hapkido, back in 1991, the 1st technique I was taught was live hand, the second technique was the 8 directions, followed by the importance of T stance one foot forward the other lateral to form a T, I stopped training in 2008 holding a 3rd Dan, and due to the club folding through lack of members making the club no longer viable, and a change of leadership due to the 8th Dan founder of the club retiring who trained under N G Joo

 

[Deleted member 40465]

I wonder if OP has considered Hapkido? It is also another jujutsu-derived system (probably, the documented history of the art is a bit cloudy), that is quite versatile in terms of technical content.

I currently train in Hapkido myself, and while there are dozens of different styles of Hapkido, making generalizations difficult, the styles I have been exposed to can be summed up as containing the arm and wrist locks of traditional japanese jiu jitsu, the throws, chokes and some (but in general very little) of the newaza of Judo, and many of the kicks of taekwondo with some unique kicks thrown in as well. In the style I train, we also use boxing style punches as well, but my impression is that that is not as common among Hapkido styles.

We also spar quite a bit with a not too restrictive ruleset, although not too hard (full contact to body, light contact to head, and with controlled arm/wristlocks, and without dangerous throws, i.e. mostly judo type throws), and with head and chest guard, elbow and shin pads, and shooto-type gloves, enabling gripping, but still having a bit of padding, adding a degree of aliveness to our training.

It will not make you into the worlds best fighter, or even give you the most effective training if fighting effectiveness is your goal (for that, I would advice you to go train MMA), but it is also far from the worst thing you can train among the huge selection of martial art styles out there. And most important for me at least, it will not put a huge strain on my body compared to several much more competitive arts I have trained before.

You read my mind. Already picking a Hapkido school.

 

[Gweilo]

I can remember the 3rd Dan grading day, I had to perform all grading material from white belt up to 3rd Dan syllabus, left and right side, it took about 6 hours.

 

[CKB]

Yes I can do that, I first started training in Hapkido, back in 1991, the 1st technique I was taught was live hand, the second technique was the 8 directions, followed by the importance of T stance one foot forward the other lateral to form a T, I stopped training in 2008 holding a 3rd Dan, and due to the club folding through lack of members making the club no longer viable, and a change of leadership due to the 8th Dan founder of the club retiring who trained under N G Joo

What I meant is that I would like you to elaborate on why you are of the opinion that there are only one style of Hapkido, especially since a significant number of Choi Yong-sul’s original students went out and started their own schools with unique curriculums, and there are quite a number of different Hapkido-styles recognized by the big Korean Hapkido organizations. Perhaps you are using the word «style» differently than I am, and that is the root of our confusion?

In either case, I’m a bit over arguing about which martial art styles or arts are the «true» or «correct» one, spending a great amount of time doing that in the ninethies (training WTF taekwondo, and being constantly told by ITF practitioners that WTF wasn’t «true» Taekwondo). As I said above, my lineage goes directly back to Choi Yung-sul, and my dan certificates is signed by Kim Jung-Soo, himself being the eight person to recieve a dan certificate from Choi Yung-sul. His style is recognized by the Korean Hapkido Federation, and that is good enough for me. If someone thinks that my Hapkido is not real or true Hapkido, for whatever reason, I couldn’t really care less.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Be it Brazilian or Japanese, this video will help.

No joke, someone said that actually worked in a fight before. It becomes habit to release to taps if you do Grappling so it transitions to actual fighting to some people, or they release being good sports then you turn around and clob their head in or something. Its also addressed in a book i have on self defence things. (granted its not told as the be all end all like in the clip, but its worth sharing)

Just thought i would share it as its pretty funny.

Edit: its also made funnier that the author has done Jujitsu and that has been their main style, so im now triple dying on the floor laughing.

 

[Gweilo]

Don't misunderstand me, Hapkido is not a common art in the UK, but many people claim to have trained in it, and we have people here claiming to have trained in Hapkido karate, or combat Hapkido, and their techniques are a mish mash of several arts, trained by some bloke who has a 1st Dan in 6 different arts, none of which are Hapkido, they seem to think if they use a cane it's Hapkido.

 

[Gweilo]

Just to add, I could have stated, I am 4th in linage to jii han jae, I am not, but nobody else can prove I was not.

 

[CKB]

I’m not based in the UK, so I wouldn’t know. My master lives in Spain, and his master lives in Daegu, South Korea.

In either case, what I refered to above was this:

as far as I am concerned there is only 1 style of Hapkido, and many teachers that say they teach the art

 

[Gweilo]

Ok we can argue the fact, Choi's art can be separated from Jae's Sin Moo, due to the argument over who named the art, because let's be honest, that is why the art has 2 names, Jae's Sin Moo is identical, in footwork and technique, it's just he prefers a slightly different approach, just that Jae argues he named the art not Choi, we could also argue, that Choi does not appear in any of the very detailed Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu records, but clearly learn't the techniques, I and yourself believe we trained in the line of Choi's art, rather than Sin Moo, what other styles are there?

 

[CKB]

Do you consider GM Geoff Booth’s Kwan Nyom a seperate style from Jae’s Sin Moo Hapkido? Because while he recieved a 10th dan from Jae (which he prefer not to use, thinking he hasn’t earned it yet), he does refer to Kwan Nyom as a Hapkido style seperate from Sin Moo.

How about Jin Jung Kwan? Or Bong Soo Han’s style? Both (as well as Kwan Nyom above) differs from both Choi’s original Hapkido and Sin Moo in both approach and curriculum, yet are founded by people who can claim direct linage back to Choi. Do you consider these seperate styles?

Just curious, but how do you define «martial arts style»? Because this seems to be turning into a discussion on semantics, and if so, I think it is highly relevant to define what a style is and isn’t before we go on.