For our foreign (non US) friends.

[Archangel M]

Some of the sparring with our foreign friends has me in the frame of mind of thinking about what makes us Americans..who after all came from various "old world" nations at one point or another..so different. Then I came across this poem that seemed kind of interesting. Rudyard Kipling was a British author and poet who lived for a time in the US. He wrote this:

An American

1894

The American Spirit speaks:

If the Led Striker call it a strike,
Or the papers call it a war,
They know not much what I am like,
Nor what he is, My Avatar.

Through many roads, by me possessed,
He shambles forth in cosmic guise;
He is the Jester and the Jest,
And he the Text himself applies.

The Celt is in his heart and hand,
The Gaul is in his brain and nerve;
Where, cosmopolitanly planned,
He guards the Redskin's dry reserve

His easy unswept hearth he lends
From Labrador to Guadeloupe;
Till, elbowed out by sloven friends,
He camps, at sufferance, on the stoop.

Calm-eyed he scoffs at Sword and Crown,
Or, panic-blinded, stabs and slays:
Blatant he bids the world bow down,
Or cringing begs a crust of praise;

Or, sombre-drunk, at mine and mart,
He dubs his dreary brethren Kings.
His hands are black with blood -- his heart
Leaps, as a babe's, at little things.

But, through the shift of mood and mood,
Mine ancient humour saves him whole --
The cynic devil in his blood
That bids him mock his hurrying soul;

That bids him flout the Law he makes,
That bids him make the Law he flouts,
Till, dazed by many doubts, he wakes
The drumming guns that -- have no doubts;

That checks him foolish-hot and fond,
That chuckles through his deepest ire,
That gilds the slough of his despond
But dims the goal of his desire;

Inopportune, shrill-accented,
The acrid Asiatic mirth
That leaves him, careless 'mid his dead,
The scandal of the elder earth.

How shall he clear himself, how reach
Your bar or weighed defence prefer --
A brother hedged with alien speech
And lacking all interpreter?

Which knowledge vexes him a space;
But, while Reproof around him rings,
He turns a keen untroubled face
Home, to the instant need of things.

Enslaved, illogical, elate,
He greets the embarrassed Gods, nor fears
To shake the iron hand of Fate
Or match with Destiny for beers.

Lo, imperturbable he rules,
Unkempt, desreputable, vast --
And, in the teeth of all the schools,
I -- I shall save him at the last!


I find it an interesting viewpoint in light of some of the conversations I have seen and participated in here.

 

[Sukerkin]

Aye, there are a lot of inherent contradictions in the American psyche. There is the promise of so much that is good and the actuality of so much that is evil.

It reminds me in many ways of the British - and that is hardly surprising as that is what you were when you started. In our Edwardian era we had the wonders and wealth of empire and child prostitutes and starvation in the streets - that is my image of America now.

Power and deprivation, good intentions and venality, virtue and depravity in a singular instance.

 

[David43515]

Aye, there are a lot of inherent contradictions in the American psyche. There is the promise of so much that is good and the actuality of so much that is evil.

It reminds me in many ways of the British - and that is hardly surprising as that is what you were when you started. In our Edwardian era we had the wonders and wealth of empire and child prostitutes and starvation in the streets - that is my image of America now.

Power and deprivation, good intentions and venality, virtue and depravity in a singular instance.

I think you summed it up well. As an American I`ve always thought that our strenth lay in the ideals we strive for....even though we often stumble and fall, or stagger drunkenly away from them (only briefly one hopes). They`re the high ideals that appeal to all the best in the human heart, no matter where you`re from. They appeal to our noblest selves, the self we wish we could be.

 

[MBuzzy]

Though the American ideal is a noble thing, I fear that it seems to get more and more perverted as the years go on. We have come a long way from the framers of the constitution and it seems in the current iteration of our national identity, we are more governed by bipartisan political hatred and a very unsure application of our superpower status. As a country, we are still pretty young and we still haven't really figure out how to do this whole superpower thing.

In a way, we're also a victim of our own ideals. Particularly this idea of freedom, many citizens seem to take it way too far. What I think most people seem to overlook is the concept of social responsibility. Yes, we are in some ways what some people refer to as a "Free Country," but we have lost the social responsibility that existed when that idea was put forth. There was a time when communities took care of each other, people cared for each other and people were generally taken care of by their neighbors. We are now isolated from our neighbors and in many cases afraid of them and we've introverted into only caring about ourselves. Luckily, there are still many who do give of themselves to help others, but in the race for the dollar, most people have stopped caring about the society in general and seek only to further their own interests.

BUT, I figure in another few hundred years if we manage to stick around that long, we might have it figured out.

 

[Makalakumu]

Here's something I've always wondered. How many of you know how your families got to the US? What is your story?

My family name is Polish. We fled Poland after it was basically wiped out by Prussia and Russia. At the time, they had a Polish General who had served with General Washington in America and they were trying to bring the Constitution to the middle of Eastern Europe. The noble families of the were pissed because this would have basically freed their serfs and given them the ability to own land. So, they essentially threw open the doors of the country and let it be overrun. At Praga, the last of the resistance was mopped up by the Russians and they basically murdered everyone in sight.

As close as I can tell, my ancestors came to America shortly after this. I would really like to know their story sometime. I wish people had written more things down.

 

[dancingalone]

Here's something I've always wondered. How many of you know how your families got to the US? What is your story?

My family and I are Vietnamese refugees from the Vietnam war. We were some of those people you see in the old documentary films being airlifted from Saigon as it was about to fall to the Communists. Dad was an officer in the ARVN and was able to get us spots on the evacuation flights. He had some brothers that weren't as fortunate... they spent some years in prison after the war.

We eventually settled in the southern US and prospered. I had the typical American upbringing, as much as an transplanted Asian could have. Like many immigrants I love America and I believe on the balance it is a much greater force for good in the world than bad.

 

[Archangel M]

Hodge podge. French fur traders who were here before the revolution, Prussian immigrants, Italian immigrants and probably a few other nationalities mixed in.

 

[Marginal]

Here's something I've always wondered. How many of you know how your families got to the US? What is your story?

Mostly my family left Sweden and Norway to find better opportunities in the US. (Not that long ago really. 1920ish or so.)

The only exception is my grandfather's family on my mother's side probably moved over from England fairly early on in the colonial period. They've been about since the country's founding.

 

[thardey]

Catholic Irish that settled in Maryland around 1740's, as near as the stories I've heard, then down to New Orleans and into Texas when it joined the Union.

At least, that's where the family name came from. There's also a mix of English, a little bit of Cherokee, and possibly Jewish, though none has been confirmed.

 

[CoryKS]

Don't know, don't care. Wherever it was, it obviously sucked *** or we wouldn't be here.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

Though the American ideal is a noble thing, I fear that it seems to get more and more perverted as the years go on. We have come a long way from the framers of the constitution and it seems in the current iteration of our national identity, we are more governed by bipartisan political hatred and a very unsure application of our superpower status. As a country, we are still pretty young and we still haven't really figure out how to do this whole superpower thing.

In a way, we're also a victim of our own ideals. Particularly this idea of freedom, many citizens seem to take it way too far. What I think most people seem to overlook is the concept of social responsibility. Yes, we are in some ways what some people refer to as a "Free Country," but we have lost the social responsibility that existed when that idea was put forth. There was a time when communities took care of each other, people cared for each other and people were generally taken care of by their neighbors. We are now isolated from our neighbors and in many cases afraid of them and we've introverted into only caring about ourselves. Luckily, there are still many who do give of themselves to help others, but in the race for the dollar, most people have stopped caring about the society in general and seek only to further their own interests.

BUT, I figure in another few hundred years if we manage to stick around that long, we might have it figured out.

It's ironic don't you think that you are arguing that when this country was founded the idea of social responsibility prevailed, but the early government still needed to force us to do so.

I think that this idea that we supposedly had this great social consciousness when the country began has been taken WAY to far, not the idea of freedom. Where in the beginning history of the U.S. was this great belief in helping others? People were left to stand or fall on their own, and it was only through personal FREE EXPRESSION that people helped. They were not forced to do so by their government. If anything, it was peer pressure amongst the individuals in a PARTICULAR community that cause those that didn't want to to help.

I would actually bet you that, dollars to doughnuts, if the government returned our freedom, and yes cash, they would be more willing to have a community of people willing to help.

Besides, we already "help" the community when our money is taken from us and given to other individuals. What more do you want?

 

[Marginal]

I think that this idea that we supposedly had this great social consciousness when the country began has been taken WAY to far, not the idea of freedom. Where in the beginning history of the U.S. was this great belief in helping others? People were left to stand or fall on their own, and it was only through personal FREE EXPRESSION that people helped. They were not forced to do so by their government. If anything, it was peer pressure amongst the individuals in a PARTICULAR community that cause those that didn't want to to help.

Or else they just had a revolt/riot and forced the offending party to submit.

Worked fine for some. Didn't work out so well for the Pinkertons.