Footwork VS sprinting and Utilizing Straight charging Footwork VS positioning into blind angles

[7BallZ]

I recently sent this question to Marc MacYoung on AllExpert but MAcYoung hasn't open his email up. So I'll quote the whole text here.

Self Defense: Quick Slippery TMA Footwork and Sports Style Ring Movement VS Hardcore Streetrats and Criminals Rush (and even UNTRAINED violent people)

I mentioned that I was questioning the notion of Footwork being superior in the streets to the point instructors were promoting footwork as a mean of escaping is much quicker than simply sprinting the hell out of there. This question is an extension of the basic premise.

I am currently reading your Street E and E and one of the things you emphasized in early chapters is how instead of taking someone head on, one tactic you can do after finding an opening and putting distance with an enemy, you can turn around and counterattack, suckerpunching your opponent.

I wish I can find it but years ago I saw a video on youtube of a fight between Blood sand Crips and you just literally described the tactics gang members from boths ides were attempting (except they took it a step further by throwing storage crates, beer bottles, and other stuff to provoke the rival gang members into chasing).

I'll divide this question into parts.

1)Sports

I cannot understand why in the Ring there is so much emphasize on footwork to evade and escape enemy. I understand there isn't enough space around a ring or cage to do the direct sprint forward as hell and than hit.

But As I mentioned in AShita no Joe, it portrays a street brawler, lacking knowledge in boxing movement, try to evade trained boxer by runnign around the ring. At one point he attempted to circle around the boxer, sprinting as fast as he can, and try to hit the enemy as he encircles the boxer. Bu the manga brought up a ******** scene by showing Rikishi utilize footwork to neutralize Joe's attempt to run around in circles and hit him.

Thing is in the Crips vs Blood video, nto only was Joe doing an EFFECTIVE tactic as gangmembers were effectively outmaneuvering and hitting from blind angles as they run around in circles, there was a related video where in an underground cage match a trained boxer (without street experience) fought a former Blood memebrs (who onlly knew barebones basic boxing). Boxer tried to do what Rikishi did with quick footwork but the Crips fighter simply did the "run around" in circles strategy Joe did and hit every once in a while.

The underground fought lasted the distance but the Crips guy was able to win via points.

So when I think of the BS in the Joe manga and compare it to not only the Crips vs Bloods clip but also the underground ringfight between boxer and Crips, it makes me wonder why footwork in ring fighting is so emphasizing on "go backwards, go forward" in a linear straight line.

Sure MMA and boxer fights use can use footworks to do move around the ring in a circularish movement but they are so focused on "looking at the enemy" that both fights can easily follow each other no matter how they use footwork. Basically even their "circling" footwork still focuses primarily on going at and behind enemy (even though fighters attempt to dance around the ring in circles and even throw in a blond of move left and right movements).

2)Hit and Run Sprinting in the Streets

More related specifically to your what your Street E and E stated. Now the basic "run in a straight line and than turn around counterattack" tactic you mention would be difficult even for a street rat to use in the ring because of how small the space is.

But even outside in the streets in very open environments such as a large downtown road, I notice train fighters still attempt to use footworking to execute "hit-runs". Except even Classical systems seem to emphasize footwork when doing hit run attacks. I mean nowhere in classical Karate books I ordered recently did I see anything mentioned about "run around the enemy in circles than hit by a blind angle" or "run the hell across a hallway and than turn around and suckerpunch" stuff you mentioned in your book.

So its not just sport athletes who seem to overlook this basic street violence technique but from what I read old manuals from Medieval swordsmanship to Classical Chinese martial arts from the 10th century don't mention about this tactic (or how to counter it).

Is there a reason to use footwork to try to outmanuever or hit-run your opponent? I will admit the footwork these classical systems show is quite different from modern MMA and boxing movement, emphasizing far more movement such as jumping and attacking specific leg movements that enables you to quickly position yourself into attacking from blind angles into blind angles.

But considering how much time it takes to ingrain the physical movements and leg strength to execute such footwork, wouldn't it be better to simply work on your sprinting speed so you can encircle an opponent or be able to outrun enemies to give you distance to turn around and hit?

3)Blind Angles

To quote.

"He looked at me and said "Are you ready?" Lesson number one...if, in a physical confrontation, an old fat man ever asks you if you are ready, you are going to learn a very unpleasant lesson. All of a sudden I saw a look come over him like a hood being drawn over his eyes. "It" had surfaced. In the blink of an eye, that fat old man was gone, replaced by something that was way, way out of my league.

He blurred.

I am not exaggerating when I say this old, bald headed fart turned into a cartoon streak to indicate speed. He moved so fast that I couldn't see what he was doing. Now with many more years of training and experience, I could probably see it; but at the time, he was there one second and gone the next. In that second, I felt myself being jerked to the side and his knife simultaneously crashing into a kill zone. I knew it was over. If this had been real, I would have been dead and there was nothing I could have done about it."

It sounds like the old fart did exactly a common tactics I see all the time on Youtube street violence (including the Bloods VS Crips clip I am having a difficult time finding).

Which is to quickly sprint yourself to the enemies sides (where he can't see you) and hit him from this blind angle, often hitting him in the cheeks or temple or better yet jamming a knife into is kidneys.

I even seen some street rats quickly able to use Kung Fu footwork to go behind an opponent and do a rabbit punch blow.

Now I understand rabbit punches are illegal in the ring. But I don't recal any rule that you can use quick footwork to go to the left of a person and throw a combo hit him at the temporal. I mean even fast fighters are so focused hitting enemies from their line of siight. Well n fact they have the speed to simply escape the opponent's tunnel vision ad aim at the ears or throw a combo at the lymph nodes.

However even some of the genuinely devastating classical systems such as predecessors of Muay Thai and Wing Chun insist on hitting someone in a frontal attack in their footwork. Rather than encouraging using the footwork to position one's self behind the opponent to hit from the back after the fight begins.

I mean the way the old SF attacks from an angle you couldn't see because he sped up so fast in that position makes me wonder why. I mean some other effective systems such as Krav Maga and Silat have such positioning and movement into blind angles as a fundamental car engine.

So I am seriously confused. Not just with why use footwork well in fact you can sprint ASAP as you maneuver to attack but why so many systems (classical ones included) insist on frontal attacks rather than going into blind angles first and than hitting.

 

[Tez3]

Gosh, I wonder why Marc hasn't open this email.

No, I lie, I do know why he hasn't lol.

 

[Flying Crane]

Looking for a bunny...

 

[7BallZ]

Gosh, I wonder why Marc hasn't open this email.

No, I lie, I do know why he hasn't lol.

Yah know I just sent this an hour ago right? I am incredibly curious of this topic I posted it here ASAP after I sent it through AllExpert.

 

[Tez3]

Yah know I just sent this an hour ago right? I am incredibly curious of this topic I posted it here ASAP after I sent it through AllExpert.

Bully for you, I just don't see why you inflict it on us. A word of advice, if you actually trained martial arts you would find the answers you are looking for, or at the very least you would be training too hard to ask convoluted, fantastical questions that are either film or game based. There is so much sheer nonsense in that 'question' I really don't know where to start. As for the language you use, it's bizarre and at times you use swear words which is unnecessary.

 

[7BallZ]

Bully for you, I just don't see why you inflict it on us. A word of advice, if you actually trained martial arts you would find the answers you are looking for, or at the very least you would be training too hard to ask convoluted, fantastical questions that are either film or game based. There is so much sheer nonsense in that 'question' I really don't know where to start. As for the language you use, it's bizarre and at times you use swear words which is unnecessary.

You are aware some of the threads I psoted weren't made by me but by other users who had chats with Marc MacYoung right?

And as Marc says, martial arts and STREET VIOLENCE are two completely different things.

Hell this question is basically proves a lot of observations I made about why I cannot understand the emphasis on stuff like "charge in or backpedal footwork" that many so called martiala rts emphasis (especially when street violence proves them ineffective).

 

[Tez3]

You are aware some of the threads I psoted weren't made by me but by other users who had chats with Marc MacYoung right?

Someone please find that damn bunny and pancake!

Look, you posted on here so they are your threads. Please get over your infatuation with Marc, I can't see him appreciating it to be honest and many people chat with him, you are not special. His views aren't set in concrete, he's not correct about everything nor is he a father figure.
A question cannot prove anything, it's a question. Who and what are you 'observing'?
My advice stands, please go train martial arts.

 

[Dirty Dog]

This one?

 

[Flying Crane]

Whew!!!

 

[Buka]

Orcophile, perhaps we could be of more assistance if we knew your age and how long you have been training.

 

[JP3]

I clicked the "disagree" link, and I want to explain.

I tend to agree with the thought that I think you should put in a few years - I admit, I am assuming you've not done so yet, but I may be wrong - in training in first a classical style, or in a sport-based, actual full-contact available style. Shoot, even vice-versa, go with fighting first to get it out of your system then go classical, that's what I ended up doing myself.

Post your O/P on the wall,... no not the wall, in the closed of your bedroom, behind all your heavy coats where you won't see if for a few years. Then, come back and post for all of us what you've learned when you move that old ratty coat down the road some few years, read what you posted, and come up with the answer. I actually would be curious to read that, you've obviously got the right curiousity.
I'll give you what I think, which is short. Some styles are based on "Sport," others are based on "combat." Others really are no longer based on anything "real" at all, and it takes a while to figure out which is which.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Orcophile, perhaps we could be of more assistance if we knew your age and how long you have been training.

He claims to be in his 20s, although I have my doubts. As far as we can tell, he doesn't train in any martial art.

 

[lklawson]

I recently sent this question to Marc MacYoung on AllExpert but MAcYoung hasn't open his email up. So I'll quote the whole text here.
"I cannot understand why in the Ring there is so much emphasize on footwork to evade and escape enemy."

That's because you have no actual experience, no actual training, refuse to take the word of experienced fighters, and won't go get any actual training from a trained and experienced instructor, preferring to, instead, apparently, get all of your information from movies, anime, video games, role playing games, and blogs which you only skimmed and took out of context through the process of Confirmation Bias.

Look, here's EVERYONE'S advice from the last half-dozen of your threads, summarized in one sentence, and likely applicable to your next half-dozen threads.

Go get actual training from an experienced martial arts instructor.

But, quite honestly, I don't think you're interested in doing that. At this point, judging from the questions you've asked thus far, it seems almost like you're ham-handedly trying to do "research" for a roll playing game or an MMORPG or something which you are graphing out after school in your bedroom. You're going to do it one better than D&D or WoW, right?

Really, truly, and honestly, all of the questions you keep asking can, and would be, answered by going and spending a year or two in a martial art which focuses on the question you're asking. Wanna know about Ring Generalship & footwork? Go study boxing and/or MMA. Wanna know about knives vs. unarmed? Go study with a actual RBSD school or a FMA school. Wanna know about swords? Go take fencing, preferably with a Maestro in your area. Wanna know how Okinawan <cough> "Peasant Weapons" work against [fill in the blank]? Go find an Okinawan Kobudo school and train.

Nothing beats experience kid. To put it in a context which you might relate to, "Talk is cheap in this business, kid." - [Young Indiana Jones]

Stop talking and go start doing. That's the only way you'll learn what you want to know.

 

[lklawson]

You are aware some of the threads I psoted weren't made by me but by other users who had chats with Marc MacYoung right?

And as Marc says, martial arts and STREET VIOLENCE are two completely different things.

And Mr. MacYoung's conclusions on the matter ain't gospel, are contested by others with at least as much (often more) experience than he has, and, at best, are only true some times for some definitions of "martial art." And if you had any more experience than just playing Tekken, watching Full Metal Alchemist, and skimming blogs hoping to find snippits which appear to agree with your preconceived notions, you'd already know this.

Hell this question is basically proves a lot of observations I made about why I cannot understand the emphasis on stuff like "charge in or backpedal footwork" that many so called martiala rts emphasis (especially when street violence proves them ineffective).

No. What it "proves" is that 80% of your "conclusions" are wrong, gibberish, or misunderstandings. It "proves" that you don't have a solid basis to speak from or draw conclusions about what works and what doesn't. It "proves" that, frankly, you just don't really know much about the subject.

You remind me of a kid many years ago who posted to rec.martial-arts usenet feed asking how he could "create a martial art from scratch." Well, the answer was to go out and get into lots of fights. If he lived unmaimed, he could then pass on "what worked" to his students. But we advised him to, instead, just go get training from some system who's founder had already gone through this dangerous and deadly process so that he wouldn't have to risk his life and limb.

The advise to you is the same. Stop speculating and writing nonsensical, rambling, gibberish. Go get trained.

 

[lklawson]

Someone please find that damn bunny and pancake!

I'm still campaigning for the "WTF?!?" button.

Look, you posted on here so they are your threads. Please get over your infatuation with Marc, I can't see him appreciating it to be honest and many people chat with him, you are not special. His views aren't set in concrete, he's not correct about everything nor is he a father figure.
A question cannot prove anything, it's a question. Who and what are you 'observing'?
My advice stands, please go train martial arts.

^^^

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk