Flying? New "Security Theater" Policy in play in US.

[Bob Hubbard]

Hey, I wear Crocs, New Balance with Gel inserts and Dr Scholls sneakers. Guess what you can't wear and fly according to regs?

After reading how they forced a woman to remove her nipple rings under threat of arrest a while back, I wished nothing but rapid unemployment to all TSA employees.

Deputized crooks and worse, them all.

 

[Tez3]

After Richard Reid tried to blow up his shoe bomb, we have to take off our shoes, this guy's bomb was in his underwear...

It was molded to his body.

The problem is that people want to fly, they want to be safe flying but they don't want the inconvenience of security but if there's no security they will moan like hell plus they will die in terrorists attacks.
Everyone is saying this is wrong, that's wrong so what is right? How will you keep passengers safe and make sure the security isn't restrictive in their eyes?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

1- Make our luggage secure, and restore our trust in the handling and transport system. Heavily punish those who steal from us.

2- Stop the sensationalist crap like "no outside liquids over 2oz" crap. The only people you're harassing are the honest ones. The terrorist knows how to hide what he needs. Figure out how to detect that and leave the seniors and goths alone.

3- Stop lax "secure area" access. Its too easy to sneak into these areas.

4- Screening should be done at the entrance to the airport. 1 suicide bomber at the screening booths will shut the place down for weeks.

5- Use common sense and stop trying to frighten us into sheepishness. Most of these policies are pushed in reaction to something. Stop reacting. Start responding and work on better screening BEFORE people get on the plane.

 

[CanuckMA]

Hey, I wear Crocs, New Balance with Gel inserts and Dr Scholls sneakers. Guess what you can't wear and fly according to regs?

After reading how they forced a woman to remove her nipple rings under threat of arrest a while back, I wished nothing but rapid unemployment to all TSA employees.

Deputized crooks and worse, them all.

I once witnessed a pair of Navy pilots having to remove all metal from their uniforms while being subjected to a 'search'. WTF?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Security Theater. Obviously being cleared to pilot an F18 in combat doesn't count to an overweight, poorly trained idiot with a license to be a jerk.

(Yes, I think the TSA, the screeners, and the whole lot are an incompetent at best group of nincompoops, and if any are reading this I strongly suggest you get someone to help you with the big words before you go off to bully some 95 year old grandmother and strut about it)

 

[xJOHNx]

If they find one terrorist who has put his bomb into his ....
What will they do then to uphold safety?

Only've been once to america by airplane. I was suprised by the fear that most of the 'guards' show in their body language.
Also, very unfriendly people. One got angry because my 4 year old sister didn't keep her hand long enough on the scanner... She could have been a terrorist or worse!

 

[Archangel M]

On the "probable cause/4th Amendment" thing. People throw that one out as often as Bob probably get's the "WHAT ABOUT FREEDOM OF SPEECH!" gripes on this board.

Those Amendments limit what the GOVERNMENT can do. They really have no impact on what a private enterprise/business can require. That's why security can search you before going into a concert/ball game etc.

If you don't like it, you don't get to "do business" with them.

 

[jks9199]

I'm not impressed with a lot of the people working for TSA that I've encountered... For example, my wife and son recently flew to visit her family. At the airport here, there's a checkpoint before the real checkpoint/security station. You're supposed to have a boarding ticket to pass that point (or, apparently, a gate pass). Well, I don't have either (I got to stay home and take care of the dog...) but I figure it's obvious my wife's hands are going to be a little full. There's no line, no crowds, so I discretely present my badge & ID to the genius at that checkpoint, and ask if it would be OK to go to the screening point with my wife... "What's that?" He ain't got a clue that I'm a cop presenting my badge of authority; he gives me the canned speech about gate passes. OK, I understand; I was asking for a favor. And I have no hard feelings that he said no. It's the cluelessness that he showed about it that scares me!

Or there was the time I'm flying out, and I put my wallet & credentials in my carry-on bag. My badge ends up showing on the x-ray... and they have to stop the whole line to identify what it was!

 

[Makalakumu]

If you don't like it, you don't get to "do business" with them.

If these are Federal regulations we are dealing with, then it simply isn't possible to choose another carrier that doesn't force it's customers to do all of this crap. I think we need to understand that any choice we may have had in the matter was curbed before we ever had a chance to make the choice. Thus, we are left with an option that is falsely presented as the only option, "if you don't like it don't fly."

It's not that simple. Clearly many steps were taken that cracked down on liberty in order for us to arrive at this point.

 

[Archangel M]

If these are Federal regulations we are dealing with, then it simply isn't possible to choose another carrier that doesn't force it's customers to do all of this crap. I think we need to understand that any choice we may have had in the matter was curbed before we ever had a chance to make the choice. Thus, we are left with an option that is falsely presented as the only option, "if you don't like it don't fly."

It's not that simple. Clearly many steps were taken that cracked down on liberty in order for us to arrive at this point.

While that may be true. I still don't see it as a Constitutional Law issue. You consent to search or you just don't fly. Like you consent to not bringing beer into the football stadium or you get booted out.

Although I must provide a proviso that if the search results in the discovery of contraband and consequent arrest I can see where there may be a 4th Amend issue.

 

[Archangel M]

..then again. I may be wrong. Check this out.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2007/08/court-says-trav/

U.S. airline passengers near the security checkpoint can be searched any time and no longer can refuse consent by leaving the airport, the nation’s largest federal appeals court ruled Friday.

If TSA is now considered a "federal LE agency". I can see this going to the SC sometime in the future.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Funny how there have been what, 4, 5? "stopped threats" the last few days.......

 

[CanuckMA]

It's time we realize that blowing up the plane is not necessarely the goal. Curbing our rights and damaging our economy is. Flying is becoming a major hassle. I work for a company with offices in Toronto and Montreal. We regularly fly between cities for meetings. If it becomes too much of an inconvienence, we'll just use video conference a lot more. If more people do that, it's going to hurt the airlines. It's going to hurt the car rental business, the cabs, hotels, restaurants, etc.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

So....the terrorists won.

 

[Flea]

..then again. I may be wrong. Check this out.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2007/08/court-says-trav/



If TSA is now considered a "federal LE agency". I can see this going to the SC sometime in the future.

It's an affront to travelers everywhere with common sense, but ... this story is kind of funny in its way. What kind of boob carries meth and a glass pipe into an environment he knows is going to be crawling with cops?!

Of course it's going to be taken out on the rest of us and that's not funny, but ... shee.

 

[CanuckMA]

So....the terrorists won.

They are well on their way. They are forcing us to give up our liberties and to live scared.

 

[Archangel M]

The terrorists "win" when we think they have won. See any Brits stop taking the bus or the metro?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

The terrorists "win" when we think they have won. See any Brits stop taking the bus or the metro?

Well, it seems that they're getting close.
- Nonsense rules and laws to give the illusion of safety while causing delays, and not actually making anything safer when flying or traveling.
- Hundreds of photographers, reporters and journalists harassed, intimidated, and sometimes assaulted by law enforcement, government agents and rent-a-goons citing 9/11 or non-existent laws.
- Increasing restrictions on various freedoms and rights such as assembly, speech and the press in the name of "security".
- Unheard of extensions of powers to law enforcement, real and imagined.
- New scanners in airports, soon to be deployed to government buildings and other transit points that literally strip you naked while exposing you to large amounts of potentially unsafe radiation. Mobile units rumored to be ready to deploy.
- US Combat troops authorized to deploy on US Soil.
- Etc.

All has been discussed here. It's worrisome.

I choose not to fly because I don't want the headaches. I don't want some TSA 'random bitbrain' to fondle my dirty underwear while some min-wage bagage bum checks my luggage for his "bonus". I don't feel like having to listen to some airport rent-a-cop tell me its illegal for me to have a camera (it's not), to have to present ID every 5 feet to any uniformed idiot who asks (even though I just showed it all to the person next to them), to have to carefully check my clothing to ensure that my socks aren't on the "banned stuff" list, to worry that they will decide they like my cell phone and so keep it, or let them search around my laptop's hard drive because they feel like being nosy, and being detained and rubber gloved if I sigh wrong so they can let me know "who the boss is" while being threatened with arrest once the "Real Cops" arrive.

Not to mention, I get to go through all that abuse, just so they can lose my luggage, bump my flight, cancel it, or take 3 days to find a plane with a working rubber band to get me home.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Got this from Randy Gage. It and the blog are interesting reads.

Dear Bob Hubbard,

So what's the point of all the harassment the TSA and other
government agencies around the world are giving to passengers now?
One thing we can say is that it isn't keeping us safer. This
theater of the absurd is really just the manifestation of a bigger
issue we face: the death of critical thinking.

I hope you read my latest blog post on the topic. And I'd
appreciate it greatly if you would DIGG, RT it, and share it on
places like Facebook. We have to get the word out on this and get
a dialog going. You can find it at:
http://su.pr/29eUhi

Hope you're having a great holiday season,

-RG

From the blog (bold is mine)

So now, what has the TSA done to make travel safer in light of this latest threat? Well of course they’re stonewalling everyone and not telling travelers anything that would make it less inconvenient or allow them to prepare for travel better. But Joe Brancatelli was able to get a copy of the directive sent out to airlines by Gale Rossides, the acting administrator. They include:

1. Passengers must remain in seats beginning 1 hour prior to arrival at destination.
2. Passenger access to carry-on baggage is prohibited beginning 1 hour prior to arrival at destination.
3. Disable aircraft-integrated passenger communications systems and services (phone, internet access services, live television programming, global positioning systems) prior to boarding and during all phases of flight.
4. While over U.S. airspace, flight crew may not make any announcement to passengers concerning flight path or position over cities or landmarks.
5. Passengers may not have any blankets, pillows, or personal belongings on the lap beginning 1 hour prior to arrival at destination.

Now let’s use our critical thinking skills and evaluate how these new rules will keep the traveling public safe…

You can’t even go to the bathroom the last hour of the flight. The millions of dollars the airlines have invested to offer Wi-Fi so you can work on the flight are useless. You can’t work on your laptop the last hour of your flight. If you’re sleeping peacefully, the flight attendants will be waking you up an hour before to grab your blanket and pillow from you. If you read these regulations literally, you won’t even be allowed a book.

And how exactly does all this keep you safer?

Assuming everything breaks down another time, and once again someone smuggles explosives on a flight, all they have to do is use them one hour before landing.

 

[Archangel M]

While I agree with your concern Bob and think that we need to seriously look at what our gvt. is doing...there really is nothing "new under the sun".

Remember:

-Suspension of Habeus Corpus during the Civil War?
-American citizens rounded up and placed in internment camps?
-Food and fuel ration stamps?
-Scrap drives?
-Air raid drills?
-etc, etc?

Not that it minimizes the importance of your points, but I find it funny how many Americans think Armageddon is coming while they surf the internet while eating their junk food, watch their cable television with a beer in hand and go to the movies, shop and live an otherwise normal life yet think that "big brother" is going to put an RFID chip in them. It seems that our threshold of toughness and ability to "carry on" in the face of danger/uncertainty had degraded over the generations.

I wonder what our ancestors thought as they went through the Civil War/ WWI-II/etc? Were they willing to declare defeat when they had to change their day to day lifestyles?

Again. Not that what you are saying inst true or concerning. It's just a strange turn of "defeatist mindset" that I see more often than not.