First Aid/CPR

[Spud]

One more thing; if I was instructing I would carry a personal liability umbrella policy. Arguably your first aid is covered by good Samaritan laws, but as an instructor trainee you should have made sure all students had their head gear fitted by Swiss Neurosurgeons and inspected weekly by ultrasound technicians from the National Institute of Standards.



[font=&quot]Just a thought. [/font]

 

[Tgace]

Thanks Spud and Donna I think I'll be a Good Samaritan now and give Tgace a hand since he won't be able to take me to court afterwards! :cheers: No hose smileys all I got is some beer to throw your way!

Beer could help kill the pain...one way or another...:cheers:

 

[dubljay]

I use to be certified in CPR and in First Aid, but I havent had the time to renew my certification. Never the less I still carry a basic first aid kit in my gear, and on more than one occasion I have had to tape up some one for a sprained ankel or wrist. While I do carry pain releivers in my kit, aspirin ibuprofen, acetamiophen (tylenol), due to a liability issue I never give them to anyone unless they specifically ask for it and are clear, concious and can answer questions about meds they take to avoid bad interactions; this is not to say that I know how all drugs react.. but I use the questions as a way for the person to recall if there are any possible bad interactions with common pain releivers.



I believe it is important for there to always be someone who is certified in cpr and first aid at a MA school. When people ask me what they should look for in a school one of the things I often suggest is to ask if the istructor(s) are first aid certified.

 

[Goldendragon7]

The following taken from another post by "Seig" aka Hitman...

For those of you that do not know StickDummy aka Pete Reiff, I would like to introduce you to this man and tell you about what he did tonight.
I met Pete just after 911 as I was undergoing entry training for my job. Part of the training/certification process we have to go through is CPR, First Aid, and PDT. The instructor was Pete Reiff. During a break he told me about a class he was excited about going to when we were finished, a knife fighting class. That remark started what is now a very close friendship between the Seigels and the Reiffs. Every year, I have to be recertified, and every year, Pete is the instructor.

A little over a year ago, Pete was involved in an auto accident where a dump truck lost control and hit 9 cars, Pete being one of the victims. Despite his own injuries, he began triage and administering aid until paramedics could arrive. No matter the circumstance, Pete stays professional.

A recent class finished up about 9:30 pm. After class, we usually congregate on my front porch for about 15 minutes before everyone goes home and I leave for work. Tonight, Pete saved another life.

Tess and I live directly across from a fire hall. As we walked up to the porch, a woman stopped at the entrance to the fire hall and started screaming, "My Baby! My Baby isn't breathing!" Seeing no response from the fire hall, Pete looked at me and said, "Let's move." We ran to the car where Pete immediately took command of the scene.

The "Baby" was a 230+ pound afro-amercian approximately 40 years old. Pete checked the man and found he was in fact not breathing. Pete told me to help him remove the man from the vehicle and lay him on the ground. This was harder than it sounded as the man was only wearing a pair of jogging shorts. Once we had the man laid out on the ground, I asked him what he wanted me to do. He told me to go to the fire hall, make sure help was on the way and then get back to him.

Pete checked the man and found he still had a pulse, as he was re-establishing the man's air way, he kept talking to the man, "Stay with me." At this point, all I could do was wait for Pete to give me another order; I expected to be required to do chest compressions at any second. Fortunately, that was not required. The man had a pulse, although he quit breathing twice. After what was probably three or four minutes, but felt like an hour, the fire-fighter showed up.

I will not comment on the firefighter other than to say he was unprofessional and out of his league. As the firefighter began to unload his jump kit, he got out his oxygen bottle and a rebreather mask. He tried to put the rebreather on, without prepping it first, Pete took the mask and prepped it and then put it on the victim as the firefighter was figuring out how to hook it up to the oxygen. While he was doing this, Pete was also questioning the victim's female companion about what happened and if the victim had taken anything.

It turns out he had been taking an asthma medication, apparently the attack was so severe that his companion was taking him to the hospital as he was hitting his medication. It would appear he took too much and entered respiratory arrest.

The firefighter continued his unprofessional behavior, which really stood out against Pete's total professionalism. Shortly thereafter, the Paramedic Squad arrived and began hooking the victim up to an ECG, his pulse was highly erratic, plunging from 62 bpm down to 16 and then back up. The Captain of the local company also responded, hooking the victim up to an IV. After they intabated him, we were able to put him on to a back board and load him onto a stretcher. He was then loaded into an ambulance.

If it had not been for Pete's quick thinking, professional demeanor, and superior skills, this man would not have survived until the ambulance arrived. Pete, I want to say :asian:!
Michael

Now if that isn't a good enough reason to take and renew your CPR credentials....... I don't know what is.:idunno:

Great work guys!!
:asian:

 

[Matt Stone]

The "C" in cpr is the chest compression the"P" is the pulmonary (rescue breathing) element.

Not really... Cardio Pulmonary Resusitation is what the acronym stands for. CPR is a combination of rescue breathing (administerting ventilation by way of artificial respiration) and chest compressions, however both are not required at all times...

If the patient has a pulse but is not breathing, you do rescue breathing but not chest compressions.

If the patient has no pulse and is breathing, you do chest compressions but not rescue breaths (though rescue breathing or bag-valve mask ventilation may be indicated to return their respirations to normal, this is beyond most first responder's skills and training).

If there is no pulse and no breathing, knock yourself out...

As far as the Good Samaritan laws go, they are in place for exactly the kind of situations that MACaver ran into... When someone with little or no training makes an error, though well meaning, and ends up injuring the patient further or, God forbid, contributing to their death.

 

[jukado1]

As martial arts instructors, our goal is to help our students have a better and safer life, at the very least. Part of that training should include methods of having a safer life, and how to make sure your protected in many situations, not just physical combat. One of the first things I teach is to always wear a seat belt, as more people are injured and killed in auto crashes in one week then are injured or killed in self-defense or fighting situations in a year, THAT is realistic self-defense. Everybody that we teach has friends and relatives. There is always the chance that one of these people will need CPR or first aid.
In my opinion, CPR and First Aid training, should be mandatory for brown belt.

 

[Martial Tucker]

Not really... Cardio Pulmonary Resusitation is what the acronym stands for. CPR is a combination of rescue breathing (administerting ventilation by way of artificial respiration) and chest compressions, however both are not required at all times...

If the patient has a pulse but is not breathing, you do rescue breathing but not chest compressions.

If the patient has no pulse and is breathing, you do chest compressions but not rescue breaths (though rescue breathing or bag-valve mask ventilation may be indicated to return their respirations to normal, this is beyond most first responder's skills and training).

If there is no pulse and no breathing, knock yourself out...

As far as the Good Samaritan laws go, they are in place for exactly the kind of situations that MACaver ran into... When someone with little or no training makes an error, though well meaning, and ends up injuring the patient further or, God forbid, contributing to their death.

I'm certainly no EMT, but I've been CPR and Red Cross 1st Aid trained for several years, and have been involved in more than my share of emergencies.
I must say I've never seen a situation where a patient had no pulse, but was still breathing.

 

[MA-Caver]

Was MACaver doing CPR or rescue breathing?

If there is severe throat trauma that would preclude the patient from breathing, I'm not sure what help rescue breathing would provide... Rapid 911 assistance and a paramedic to run the tracheotomy would likely be his best chance for survival...

MACaver, CPR is the chest compression part... You NEVER want to do chest compressions when the patient's heart is still beating (you'll cause it to stop, and then you're in a real mess...).

Folks too often say one thing and mean another. They need to pay more attention and use the right terms, right phrases, and right descriptions instead of just assuming folks know what they mean...

Ya you're right... I wasn't doing chest compressions but the guy's face was built so that I was able to breathe into his nostrils (after trying the mouth after seeing that it didn't work... little or no chest rise) and try to get air in that way. I was a bit panicky because, like I said it went further than I intended. My MA training was not where it is now and thus the mishap, but the guy was attacking me..took a couple of swings that made me realize that he was too drunk/billigerent to listen...)
I was only doing the breathing for a few minutes before the cruiser showed up. I don't know the severity of the injury I caused. Only that the guy stopped breathing. This may have been attributed to blunt force trauma complicated by alcohol inebriation.
Ya I realize I had this guys life in my hands...considering that I was the one that put him in that situation to begin with and I was the only one around. I could've just walked off with a casual F.U. behind my shoulder. But I didn't.
It was truly a fubar-ed situation. I was also worried about something else coming out of the wood work since I was the minority in that neighborhood of DC. This happened something like twenty years ago and I was still in the first few years of being out on my own for the first time. So I'll plead "young and stupid your honor!"
My first aid training then was minimal at best. ....Hmm, why am I explaining this?? Oh yeah! Clairification. Anyway, I thunk long and hard after that incident and scanned the papers for a week afterwards on anything mentioning the incident (via police reports printed in the Post). Nothing, nada. A load off my mind. A severe lesson to learn to get better control and training before trying that crap again.... I did and it has since paid off. But at least (hindsight being the greatest prophet) was trying to do something.
:asian:

 

[Ceicei]

I must say I've never seen a situation where a patient had no pulse, but was still breathing.

However rare, that does happen. Gotta be there at the right moment to jump-start a heart. Within a minute without oxygen circulation from the pumping heart, the lungs will stop functioning. Fortunately, as you mentioned, circumstances when people lost their pulse but still remain breathing for a few seconds very seldom happens.

- Ceicei

 

[tshadowchaser]

I think that whoever trains in methods to injure should also be trained in methods to heal/provide aid.

I agree.
If you have a school with a good number of people in it maybe you should consider contacting the Red Cross or any other organisation that teaches these things and have them come to your place and teach the course. It will give everyone who attends a chance to learn and if something should happen in class you have at least tried to provide the knowledg needed to help. Your students can also carry this knowledge into their personal world and be better preparied to help their familys and friends in a time of need.

 

[LadyDragon]

If some of the students have the CPR/First Aid training, thats a plus. but I also agree that the instructors should be train and certified in CPR/First Aid. Its to every ones benefit to have more than one person with the knowledge of how to save/heel some one. You never know when the instructor may be the one who needs the help, then what happens if they're the only one with the first aid training. Its just better to have a few people train. As always, there's safety in numbers.