Favorite/Hated thing/s about Ninjutsu/Ninjitsu

[Kizaru]

If I recall correctly, Takamatsu inherited the Shinden Fudo ryu Dakentaijutsu from Toda Shinryuken Masamitsu (along with Togakure ryu, Gyokko ryu, Koto ryu, Kumogakure ryu, Gyokushin ryu, and Gikan ryu). The Takagi Yoshin ryu and Kukishin ryu were inherited from his other teachers.

I seem to recall reading that Gikan ryu, like Gyokushin ryu, is based on Gyokko ryu. But, I could be mistaken. Also, Gikan ryu was part of the so-called 'Momochi-den', was it not??

No, Gikan ryu was not part of the Momochi-den, and it was not passed down through Toda Shinryuken Masamitsu. Gikan ryu was transmitted to Takamatsu Toshitsugu through Ishitani Matsutaro along with Kukishin ryu. The information can easily be found on the top right hand corner of page 214 in the Budo ryuha Daijiten.

 

[te_greening]

i hate it when i've been tied up in knots and can't get out of it.
but i love it when it's my turn.

 

[George Kohler]

I seem to recall reading that Gikan ryu, like Gyokushin ryu, is based on Gyokko ryu. But, I could be mistaken.

Koto-ryu koppojutsu
Gyokushin-ryu koppojutsu
Gyokushin-ryu ninpo
Gikan-ryu koppojutsu
Hontai Gyokushin-ryu
Izumo-ryu koppojutsu

are all based from Gyokko-ryu, but not all went to the Momochi family. Only Koto-ryu and Gyokko-ryu.

 

[heretic888]

Thanks for the clarifications, guys. :asian:

 

[Hudson69]

The favorite thing I like about ninjutsu is the side skills; the taihenjutsu and the ukemi. The thing I like least is the lack of any type of sparring/randori to allow students to feel how the techniques really need to flow together at speed with someone actively attempting to block, counter or something else.

 

[Shinobi Teikiatsu]

Please refrain from posting in topics that haven't been posted in for five years.

 

[Cryozombie]

Please refrain from posting in topics that haven't been posted in for five years.

Why? And who made you mod of the Ninjutsu section?

 

[Bujingodai]

LOL, exactly what the hell.
Good topic actually .

I had a chance to see my old teacher (Bujinkan) in action the other night, it did remind me of what I liked and didn't.
I am not a fan of the timed lunge punch, I know it is form and something to work with flow, of which my old Shidoshi is flawless at. I just care for a more pragmatic approach.
I do love the variety, creativity and personal feeling of historical attachment the Bujinkan gave me. It is very different from other arts, I find it funny when they state it is not when they just don't know.
I know it is not a Booj thing, I'd like to see more tenkan used.
I don't care for the lack of etiquette. I do like the general kinship that exists in the dojo's as a rule that most schools I have seen don't have.

 

[stephen]

I don't care for the lack of etiquette. I do like the general kinship that exists in the dojo's as a rule that most schools I have seen don't have.

I think these two things are related.

 

[Cryozombie]

I think these two things are related.

I'll disagree, but only because my experience has been different. When I studied Hapkido there was a whole formal dojo ettique thing, bowing, "Sir/Ma'm" respecting the belts, Etc... and the people were just not very tight or helpful, beyond what was required, or the ones who just are, whether you are the person in the dojo or some schlub on a street corner.

Conversley in my current dojo, we do 1 bow in and out. No training formalities, we refer to everyone by their first name, you wear what you want to wear, belt rank inst an indication of respect, etc... and we are the tightest group of people I know... we all hang out outside the dojo together, take trips places, socialize... in short we are all FREINDS as well as classmates.

So I don't think the two are neccesarrily linked. But I'll be the first one to admit our school is different than most, being that its not a "come pay learn" commercial environment.

 

[Bruno@MT]

In Genbukan we adhere to a formal protocol on the mat.
I can call the head sensei (Renshi 5th Dan) Filip in the dressing room, but on the mat he is Sensei. We also have to wear the same (ish) outfit, and if we change training partners, we bow in and out. If we hand over a weapon, this is done with a bow as well.

Yet everyone is helpful and and there is a comfortable and positive atmosphere in the dojo. So I don't think the 2 are necessarily related.

In my old JJ club, everyone was on first name basis. The JJ and Judo senseis around my area generally were like that.
And the atmosphere was great as well.

So I really think it is a result of the people who make up the club, rather than the specific structure that is in place.

 

[stephen]

I'll disagree, but only because my experience has been different. When I studied Hapkido there was a whole formal dojo ettique thing, bowing, "Sir/Ma'm" respecting the belts, Etc... and the people were just not very tight or helpful, beyond what was required, or the ones who just are, whether you are the person in the dojo or some schlub on a street corner.

Conversley in my current dojo, we do 1 bow in and out. No training formalities, we refer to everyone by their first name, you wear what you want to wear, belt rank inst an indication of respect, etc... and we are the tightest group of people I know... we all hang out outside the dojo together, take trips places, socialize... in short we are all FREINDS as well as classmates.

So I don't think the two are neccesarrily linked. But I'll be the first one to admit our school is different than most, being that its not a "come pay learn" commercial environment.

This is exactly what I was saying. I believe they are linked in that way.

Too much etiquette puts a barrier between you and your classmates, I actually believe it's a more dangerous environment because you're encourage to see people as an 'office' rather than a person. When people are people and classmates are friends ill feelings never build up. Sometimes people don't mind putting a little hurt on that 'whatever-dan that thinks he's so good' but no one wants to see a friend injured.

Also, I think, Cryo, that the sort of dojo you experience is the norm for the Bujinkan. (Besides, I think you've been to my teacher's dojo at least once back in the day....)

 

[Cryozombie]

Also, I think, Cryo, that the sort of dojo you experience is the norm for the Bujinkan. (Besides, I think you've been to my teacher's dojo at least once back in the day....)

I've seen it in a few dojos, but also plenty that weren't. I dont know if we are the norm or not, lol.

And I may have, who is your teacher if you don't mind me asking?

 

[waystland]

The favorite thing I like about ninjutsu is the side skills; the taihenjutsu and the ukemi. The thing I like least is the lack of any type of sparring/randori to allow students to feel how the techniques really need to flow together at speed with someone actively attempting to block, counter or something else.

you would seriously hurt each other, i asked the question to my Sensei he took a Blackbelt student who is very flexible and takes allot of pain as an uki "cant remember the spelling" if our Sensei finished the last 10% of the moves the BB would have been in a wheelchair. He took the hits and locks but just a bit more it would have been game over, me being new and do a move without knowing how "the other person feels" to is hard, i hut my classmate because i did not let go of a lock and took him down..... i was VARY SORRY and felt bad
i got a broken nose my first month...... i "got up" to fast when a senior belt was " finishing" the move...... now i stay down till i get a hand up or till i tap out and get let go......

 

[Newbie]

From what i've played with so far i'm particularly liking jutaijutsu techniques, having come from previous training that didn't include locks, throws etc... it's fascinating stuff! At the moment i'm more enjoying the taijutsu aspects as apposed to weapons training, though i'm sure each helps the other...i just have less interest in that at this point (wouldn't say i'd hate it though)

 

[ElfTengu]

Too much etiquette puts a barrier between you and your classmates, I actually believe it's a more dangerous environment because you're encourage to see people as an 'office' rather than a person. When people are people and classmates are friends ill feelings never build up. Sometimes people don't mind putting a little hurt on that 'whatever-dan that thinks he's so good' but no one wants to see a friend injured.

Etiquette is great except when in the hands of people with OCD or Control Freak mentailities that cannot function without a bubble of imposed order around them.

Think of your dojo as one of those nativity scenes, just when you've got everything just how you want it, someone puts an X-Men figurine in there and no matter how much you try, it just doesn't fit and if it had feelings it wouldn't feel welcome.

I think this is another side to the barrier that you speak of. A student from another dojo/org/art comes to your tightly controlled etiquette bound perfect little set up and it gets your back up because the order and harmony you sought so hard to achieve is now disrupted by a square peg that doesn't fit in any of your round holes.

If anyone does feel like this when somebody new come along, the problem is yours and not theirs.

Etiquette should not make newcomers/visitors uncomfortable/unwelcome, because it is founded on creating an atmosphere whereby guest and host are polite and friendly and do not cause offence, and a cold shoulder is neither polite nor friendly. I have observed that whilst teachers are usually friendly and welcoming, it is often their students who close ranks on a newcomer and are reluctant to train with them etc, but this is also the fault of the teacher because they should encourage a welcoming atmosphere. I've seen pubs where three locals/regulars act like they own the place and directly affect the viability of the establishment as a business because nobody wants to go there just to be made to feel unwelcome. A dojo should not be like this.

And just like actual skill, levels of etiquette will vary greatly from a 15 year old 10th kyu newbie and a 30-something Shidoshi who thrives on 'becoming Japanese' every time they walk into the dojo, and allowances must be made for this.

I know this isn't what you meant Stephen, but just another aspect of etiquette which in itself isn't a bad thing, being crucial for safety, respect and tradition.

 

[Kajowaraku]

I've seen pubs where three locals/regulars act like they own the place and directly affect the viability of the establishment as a business because nobody wants to go there just to be made to feel unwelcome. A dojo should not be like this.

I agree! A dojo should not be like a pub with three regulars scaring off other people! Also, a dojo should not serve beer.:boing2: Love your choice of metaphor .

 

[ElfTengu]

I agree! A dojo should not be like a pub with three regulars scaring off other people! Also, a dojo should not serve beer.:boing2: Love your choice of metaphor .

I think a dojo with a separate bar attached (not accessible from the matted area) would be my idea of heaven.

Put a Wagamama's next door and I might never go home again!

 

[SPX]

Another thing I dislike is when people's main sources of reference are questionable 80's books...

The 80s were the awesomest.

I miss those days, when there was still a mystique surrounding martial arts.

 

[DuskB4Dawn]

I think a dojo with a separate bar attached (not accessible from the matted area) would be my idea of heaven.

Put a Wagamama's next door and I might never go home again!

This would be good for some drinks after training with all your fellow students. You wouldn't want to get drunk before class though. could get a bit messy.
and plus you don't wanna do drunken style boxing. that will just look stupid

My favorite things in Ninjutsu is well learning Ninjutsu.... I love taijutsu and weapon training just as much as I love Taihenjutsu and the other stealth aspects of ninjutsu. Also I like learning A Japanese martial art and the culture and history and I do believe in proper dojo etiquette.

the things I don't like is power trippers who feel rank is an indication of power. I guess you will find this everywhere in life. If anything its higher grade people that have to take time out to teach you things so. I genuinely am grateful and can appreciate people of higher rank than me. One of the reasons I left karate is because of ranking. it was like an exam and fee and all the paper work!!! I dislike paperwork but I like in my school it is a personal approach and you are graded when the instructor feels you are ready.