Fate?

[someguy]

This may have been made or not I'm not sure. Here's my question. Is there fate? Of course lets play nice on this potentially touchy subject.

 

[Cruentus]

I believe that there is a path that we are supposed to follow, and a path that we choose to follow. They are not always one in the same.

In other words, there is free will. But, I think divine intervention can also plays a role. It may have been "fate" as in divine intervention for me to meet my fiancee' and even for us to be together and compatable, but I could choose to break up with her, cheat on her (in which she would break up on me), demonstrate abusive behavior, or overall just screw the entire thing up. So in that sense, I believe in "fate".

I don't believe in "Fate" in the sense that peoples roles or actions in life are "predestined" or already "predetermined."

 

[someguy]

If there is a God who knows all would he not also know your actions before he created everything. Thus would a person not be fated from before the beginning to do what they do?
Lets see if maybe this will bring debate.

 

[Jay Bell]

I'm not sure how the original question warrented a religious answer.....I thought he asked of fate?

 

[Zepp]

Originally posted by someguy
If there is a God who knows all would he not also know your actions before he created everything. Thus would a person not be fated from before the beginning to do what they do?
Lets see if maybe this will bring debate.

Ahhh, but perhaps what God knows is all of your possible actions before you commit them.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I believe you make you own way, given the cards you are given. Obviously it is easier to win the hand when you have four aces and $5,000 to bet with versus a pair of 2's and $5 to bet with.

As to the religious response it may and it may not be a religious issue. In Christianity, there is the concept of free will. The choice to eat the Apple, etc, ..., was all about making choices and understanding the effects of your decisions.

In some religions they try to make it out like some people are just destined to be in their role of life, yet in the after life you will have, ..., .

So, it could go both ways.

Just my Opinions:asian:

 

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by Jay Bell
I'm not sure how the original question warrented a religious answer.....I thought he asked of fate?

Belief on Fate and religious beliefs are completely related.

 

[OULobo]

There can be religious conotations to fate, but it's not required. I always remeber the theory that God loves man most because of our free will. It is watching our choice in actions that interests him, it is us choosing the path he laid for us to take that pleases him. I don't believe that there is any destiny or predetermined fate, just choices and probability.

 

[someguy]

Originally posted by Zepp
Ahhh, but perhaps what God knows is all of your possible actions before you commit them.

IN a pool game you can strike a ball and if you chose to figure it out you could figure out how it would move around and strike other balls and so forth. If god applied something like that as he created the universe would he not then be able to know the end result? If God created the universe then I figure he would have created the physics and blah to govern it all.

I'm not sure how the original question warrented a religious answer.....I thought he asked of fate?

If a God created the universe then would it not depend on GOd on if there is fate?

 

[Zepp]

Originally posted by someguy
IN a pool game you can strike a ball and if you chose to figure it out you could figure out how it would move around and strike other balls and so forth. If god applied something like that as he created the universe would he not then be able to know the end result? If God created the universe then I figure he would have created the physics and blah to govern it all.

That logic only holds if you believe God and the universe to be finite. If you believe that something infinite actually exists (such as, say an omnipotent, omniscient being), then you have to accept that there is more than one possible outcome for a situation that involves an animate being making a choice. (Forgive me if you think that logic doesn't apply to the universe.)

 

[someguy]

Originally posted by Zepp
That logic only holds if you believe God and the universe to be finite. If you believe that something infinite actually exists (such as, say an omnipotent, omniscient being), then you have to accept that there is more than one possible outcome for a situation that involves an animate being making a choice. (Forgive me if you think that logic doesn't apply to the universe.)

I don't quite follow you there Zepp. An all omnisent God would know the end result correct?
Is there really such a thing as an infinite universe than thee would need to be an infinet god as well unless there is not such thing as God . If there is no such thing as an infinte God then i don't think there could be Fate.

 

[Zepp]

Originally posted by someguy
I don't quite follow you there Zepp. An all omnisent God would know the end result correct?
Is there really such a thing as an infinite universe than thee would need to be an infinet god as well unless there is not such thing as God . If there is no such thing as an infinte God then i don't think there could be Fate.

Let me say try to say it another way then. An infinite God would know all of the possible end results. Fate means that there is only one possible outcome.

Therefore, just because fate doesn't exist, it doesn't mean that God doesn't exist.

(Just to be extra clear, I'm arguing for the existence of God, and against the existence of fate.)

 

[MA-Caver]

Is there a difference between fate and destiny?

Lets try this... three men are walking down the street at night and are in a row with one being behind the other and the last behind him. They pass an alley and a madman steps out after the last guy and shoots a gun:shotgun: ; just a split second before the gun goes off the last guy drops something and quickly bends to pick it up, the second guy hearing the item drop behind him and turns to see the source behind him... the gun goes off and hits the first guy.
Was that fate or destiny or just plain bad luck? Had the second guy ignored the sound behind him and didn't turn around and was hit would've that been any of the three? What about if the third guy didn't move fast enough to retrieve his item and was hit?
Even further what if the madman's gun was faulty and blew up in his hand when he pulled the trigger? What would you call that?

---------------------------------------------------------

In the Terminator movies Fate is talked about a lot (in between bullets). No fate except what we make (for ourselves).
Christianity talks about free will. Other religions talk about Karma.

Our own belief systems and how we were raised and what we've studied during our lives (school or beyond) and our experiences help us to make that determination for ourselves.

I honestly don't think there's going to be ONE answer for the original question. Our views will be different across the board. None-the-less the responses have been (and will be) rawther interesting so far.

:asian:

 

[Zepp]

Personally, I've always believed that we may have a destiny, but we can always do things to change it.

Our own belief systems and how we were raised and what we've studied during our lives (school or beyond) and our experiences help us to make that determination for ourselves.

Indeed.

 

[markulous]

What was that short conversation from the matrix?

Morpheus: Do you believe in fate, Neo?
Neo: No.
Morpheus: Why?
Neo: Because I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my life.

I without a doubt agree with that. I believe somewhat like Christians do. That there is God, and there is heaven, and there is a devil. Has anyone read Dragonlance books? Well if not, there are always 2 gods dukin' it out. A good god and an evil god. One isn't nessicarily stronger than the other. That's kind of what I think. Sometimes the good god is winning sometimes the evil one is winning. I don't see there being one god, for balance reasons. Balance is of the utmost importance EVERYWHERE. If there was only one god that was good it would be highly unbalanced. Yes, to me there can be too much good.

There are billions of opportunities, choices, and other things that come into account in our daily life. But it's up to my lazy *** to get up off the couch and seek them out.

 

[someguy]

SO you kind of follow the whole Manicheism sort of thing. intresting
Seeing as your dealing with good and evil as well as fate so will I
Now I am reading some of St. Augistines work. He said evil exists because of free will. Man chooses to do evil. What do you guys think of this idea.
I personally disagree due to my belife in fate but I wonder what those of you who don't think.

 

[OULobo]

Originally posted by someguy
SO you kind of follow the whole Manicheism sort of thing. intresting
Seeing as your dealing with good and evil as well as fate so will I
Now I am reading some of St. Augistines work. He said evil exists because of free will. Man chooses to do evil. What do you guys think of this idea.
I personally disagree due to my belife in fate but I wonder what those of you who don't think.

As a christian I think that free will is always the key. Free will allow us to do evil, but it also allow us to free our selves from sin. In my opinion free will is the reason why God loves us. Those who choose him do so of their free will.

 

[someguy]

I don't think it would intrest to many peopel but right now I'm working on a phillosophy paper for this topic. I'm comparing Arminus calvin Augistine and bringing a couple other of the great phillosophers into it. Its mainly a theological paper but its almost intresting. Its driving me crazy how much I'm having to read for this. Calvins institutes of christianity or what ever it is. Arminius's 40 pages on this topic. There is alot out there.

 

[OUMoose]

Fate is an interesting idea. As people have mentioned, if there is an all-knowing being who created everything, would he have not known exactly what choices you'd make through your whole life, thereby setting you upon your path? Or is fate merely probability, and the random outcome of any given choice has an infinite number of possibilities?

A perfect example (IMO) are your friends. Are they there because that's "god's" way of keeping you on the path, by putting people there who may sway your opinion? Are they part of your karmic self, always bound to meet in every lifetime? Are they the random result of being in the right place at the right time with the right set of mental and physical atributes that made you compatible? Answer: who knows?

All I do know is I'm sure we'll find out in the end who's right. Unfortunately you won't be able to tell anyone about it.

 

[loki09789]

Fate is an interesting idea. As people have mentioned, if there is an all-knowing being who created everything, would he have not known exactly what choices you'd make through your whole life, thereby setting you upon your path? Or is fate merely probability, and the random outcome of any given choice has an infinite number of possibilities?

A perfect example (IMO) are your friends. Are they there because that's "god's" way of keeping you on the path, by putting people there who may sway your opinion? Are they part of your karmic self, always bound to meet in every lifetime? Are they the random result of being in the right place at the right time with the right set of mental and physical atributes that made you compatible? Answer: who knows?

All I do know is I'm sure we'll find out in the end who's right. Unfortunately you won't be able to tell anyone about it.

The thing I find interesting is that the atheistic view about god and higher power likes to use the scientific method to justify their stance and at the same time they say it puts them completely in charge of their choices and life with no excuses.....

yet this view ignores that the scientific method is the same philosophical approach that has created the argument of nature vs. nurture, determinism vs free will.....

The universe could be just one big chemical reaction set in motion that could be mapped out mathematically if you knew all the variables and that would be just as fatalistic as the view that there is a GOD who has a grand scheme for us all.

As usual, my POV, is that it is somewhere in combination. Somethings we can decide on, others are out of our control.