FAQ on Why TKD is being smashed.

[KennethKu]

Let's be fair, neither Bagatha nor any one is categorically labelling all non-affiliated schools as crap schools. Bagatha posted that "99% of the Crap schools in this province are non-affiliations ." There is a night and day's difference there. All dogs have 4 legs. But not all 4 legged animals are dogs.

Of course everyone already knows that each instructor is to be judged on his own or her own. That is all too obvious.

But the benefits of membership in a federation are there and have been pointed out repeatedly already. To deny/ignore that is ridiculous.

JMHO, and I say this with all due respect. :asian:

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by Angus

But like Bagatha said, a white belt wouldn't know it's a copy.
........

I believe you have misrepresented what Bagatha said, if you are referring to someone faking an affiliation issued certificate.

Allow me to quote from Bagatha's post.

Originally posted by Bagatha
...You cant simply copy a certificate, as that is not the only proof of affiliation and most federations wont blindly accept a certificate of a degree by the instructors word.....

You would be terribly mistaken to assume that one can easily pull off pretending to be an instructor in a federation. The gig would be up a lot sooner than you might think.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Langdow



Okay so if I practice the martial art, Taekwondo belonging to the WTF, I am not practiceing the real deal?
I think you have been pulled into a misconception that the BashTKD page is speaking about. There is Taekwondo the martial art, and there is Taekwondo the martial sport. You tell me what the difference is. I personally practice the martial art however I do compete. There is a huge difference between the art and the sport. The art deals with poomse, hosinsool, philosophy, and general all around self improvement. The sport deals with . . . the sport, nothing more nothing less. When you speak about the real deal and "combat/military" I take it you are learning how to fight. I guess there is a difference because I am learning how not to fight. I've been in many altercations because of my job and I've only been grabbed once. I can either get myself out of the situation or talk the person out of the bad choice they are going to make. The person who did grab me, was in a wrist lock real quick and me telling them how foolish that was, the altercation was over there and never needed to be escilated. If I am not practiceing the real deal, I guess I deserve a half point penalty for an invalid grab technique. (sorry couldn't resist being a little sarcastic )
Practiceing poomse now is also a way to learn/excercise. Granted there are places that don't teach them, I just find them to be a good learning tool, and they can be modified to be made into a great workout too.
I don't mean to bash you or anything MartialArtist, I say go with what works for you, however I think there is a realization that you may need to see that yours is not the "real deal" TKD you claim it tob be. Like I said earlier TKD was developed for the military during the Japanese occupation of Korea. Gen Choi brought the Kwans together to form TKD. Both North and South Korea used TKD during the Korean war. It is still being taught to many militaries not just the Koreas. It is all how you train and the mindset you have when you train. Combat/Military are still buzz words.
Just a quick note about ITF/WTF certifications. ITF and WTF black belts have certification numbers. These numbers can be verified through the governing organizations to find the validity of the said BB. This makes it near impossible to copy a WTF/ITF certification because the public can always check the references. If you look at any WTF or ITF BB practicioner and they won't give you there certification number, they aren't legit and should be reported to whichever organization they are posing as. Then they get a cease and desist, or some other nasty type of lawyer driven thing that nobody likes.

I agree partially.

You can train in WTF and train in tae kwon do. However, even in Korea from 40 years ago to now, the focus gradually went to sport as there's more interest there.

They aren't buzz words because if anyone promotes that they teach military/combat TKD, it wouldn't be real. A real instructor wouldn't preach at all. It is usually for a very select number of students, almost like disciples. It is a very long-term commitment.

And yes, military TKD is different from the TKD they teach in the military, that's how the name goes for some reason. In the military, there is more focus on locks of that of hapkido and knife training.

The instructors, yes, they do get their black belts from the WTF and the ITF. However, they do not associate themselves with it in terms of saying, "I teach ITF TKD"

 

[Bagatha]

Originally posted by MartialArtist




The instructors, yes, they do get their black belts from the WTF and the ITF. However, they do not associate themselves with it in terms of saying, "I teach ITF TKD"

I dissagree. It totally depends who they are talking to. If I am talking to another martial artist, I will Identify my style, if not then it doesnt mean anything anyway.

 

[Angus]

Not that it really matters, but the copying a certificate thing was NEVER a big point of mine, and I never assumed anything about what Bagatha said. I'm not sure why you made a bigger deal about that than anything else. However, my point was it's easy to get the paper or something that resembles it, whether it lasts or not. I'm just saying paper and associations aren't everything to me. Just my opinion though.

 

[Langdow]

They aren't buzz words because if anyone promotes that they teach military/combat TKD, it wouldn't be real. A real instructor wouldn't preach at all. It is usually for a very select number of students, almost like disciples. It is a very long-term commitment.

Okay, I'll go with you for right now and say they aren't buzz words, I personally don't know of any schools that are military or combat driven, but I fail to see how if they promote it as military or combat that it fails to be real? How I am understanding of this is if it is promoted the syllabus of the style changes because of the promotion. One thing I worry about however is the word "disciples" Sounds cultish to me. "Students" is still the most positive label and probably the most correct if it is quality, and the instructor is allowing a learning curve to occur rather than, do as I say, because I said so.

And yes, military TKD is different from the TKD they teach in the military, that's how the name goes for some reason. In the military, there is more focus on locks of that of hapkido and knife training.

This is interesting because I'm currently training with a korean master, as a guest to his school, who used to be a hand to hand instructor for the south korean army. My training with him is more for competition though, but I'd be interested to ask him what the differences are that he taught while in the service. My combative training however is still with my master.

The instructors, yes, they do get their black belts from the WTF and the ITF. However, they do not associate themselves with it in terms of saying, "I teach ITF TKD"

This is . . . eye raising to me. I'd be interesting in finding out why they hold a WTF/ITF dan but don't teach under the syllabus. Not to say that they can't add things to to the base syllabus, but it sounds like from your description that they have essentially abandonded it.

:yinyang:

 

[Damian Mavis]

"they have essentially abandonded it."

Langdow, I can't speak for these "military" TKD schools but I run my school completely diferently than any other ITF school I've ever seen and I don't abandon the "syllabus". I just don't focus on the parts I don't find as worthwhile... I spend about half the time training my students in traditional ITF TKD and the other half we are training in various other things that I think are important for self defence and fighting skills. I think it's ok to add to the curriculum as long as you're keeping your roots and teaching the traditional information as well as whatever else is deemed important.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Langdow



This is . . . eye raising to me. I'd be interesting in finding out why they hold a WTF/ITF dan but don't teach under the syllabus. Not to say that they can't add things to to the base syllabus, but it sounds like from your description that they have essentially abandonded it.

:yinyang:

They don't teach the ITF or the WTF forms, it is not stressed as much.

Military TKD is NOT for the military as I've said. Military TKD is just the name for the TKD that focuses on full contact sparring and physical/mental unity more so than point-sparring.

The reason there aren't military/combat TKD schools is...

1. They aren't very public
2. You're from the US/Canada and full-contact sparring is not popular anywhere, especially in the US/Canada and all the political controversies

Disciples isn't very cultish at all. Rather, it is very traditional and cultural. For instance, a disciple in the martial arts doesn't mean Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Judas, etc. but think of it as a full-time student.

Ask your master on the types of kyorugi and he'll explain the numerous types.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Damian Mavis

"they have essentially abandonded it."

Langdow, I can't speak for these "military" TKD schools but I run my school completely diferently than any other ITF school I've ever seen and I don't abandon the "syllabus". I just don't focus on the parts I don't find as worthwhile... I spend about half the time training my students in traditional ITF TKD and the other half we are training in various other things that I think are important for self defence and fighting skills. I think it's ok to add to the curriculum as long as you're keeping your roots and teaching the traditional information as well as whatever else is deemed important.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

Yes, the only difference with combat instructors is that none of our focus is diverted to the sport aspect. Even way back, the ancient Korean practitioners would pratice high up in paekdusan as my uncles did in order to gain more stamina and learn to use their mind and make a connection with the body. But obviously, they don't do that anymore with NK's condition and that they have passed away.

 

[Damian Mavis]

Ya I'm not to fond of tournaments (the sporting aspect), my students all know that going to tournaments and trying to win are at the bottom of our priorities. HOWEVER, I do compete occasionaly, I was even Canadian champ for my weight division in my federation back in the day which was a total fluke. The reason I say fluke is I never go to tournaments to win, I go to test my ability to relax and stay focused while under pressure. I don't know about most people but I used to get really nervous going to tournaments and it would directly affect my ability to execute my techniques with power and precision. Not to mention my focus and strategy would go right out the window. So I would force myself to go to tournaments to overcome my weakness and I finally learned to control my stress and use my adrenaline to my advantage. The reason it was important for me to do this was I didn't like the idea of maybe getting scared or nervous when I needed to use my martial arts for self defence and not being able to properly. Competing in tournaments helped me with all that so for that purpose I find them helpful. But for pure sport I'm not a big fan...

The next step for me is amateur Muay Thai... it's full contact and pretty rough with the elbows and knees to the ribs and head. I want to test if what I learned about staying calm and focused will work in such brutal conditions.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[Langdow]

First off, thanks for your opinions and thoughts. They are all appreciated
Mr Mavis, I agree whole heartadly that it is okay to add to the base curriculm set forth, that is in fact what my master does, and I think it makes for a better learning experience. After all for a WTF first dan, kukkiwon says as long as you can do Taegeuk pal jang, one other of the Taegeuks, and spar (olympic style) for 1 min, then you are a first dan. Really seems minimal to me. Self defense isn't even included in that

I guess it's up to the chief instructor to make sure that his students are learning what they need to know to stay out of trouble.

MartialArtist sir, I think we still have different definitions of disciples, however I do agree with the full time student idea, and that to me is a very noble idea.

BTW, is it just me, or have we stopped following the topic of the thread, not that it bothers me

Regards