It's amazing how much the abdominals get worked from picking yourself up. One of the things I learned while getting up, is the correct way to get up. For me not getting up with my head forward torwards my attacker is what I had to work on. Even if not for takedowns, basic falling and rolling is important. Another there a lot of great sacrifice falls to be had later on. The one I love is the (you grab) two handed lapel grab, kick the legs up and turn away from your attacker while up around chest level. There's always a counter to everything though.
Falling and countering
- Thread starter terryl965
- Start date
I wanted to express again how important I think it is for correct falling to be included in curriculums.
We took on a 2nd degree Kukkiwon who wanted to start at white with us and was amazed that he had to learn to fall at white belt. He expressed that he had never been taught any kind of tumbling or falling whatsoever in TKD.
This really concerns me. I have GS friends who have taken up TKD who are starting to be taken down and are starting to spar but are not being shown how to fall properly.
There is no doubt that correct falling has kept me from serious injury at least three times that I can be sure of just in daily life. Why would anyone teach their students about take-downs and allow them to be taken down without proper nak bup instruction???
Is this not a standard part of the Kukkiwon curriculum?
Please know I'm not trying to flame, just seeking some clarity. Thanks.
Like anything else, it depends on the KKW instructor's training. In my 1st KKW school, I did not learn falling. I did learn falling in the ITF-style school that I was a part of (the instructor also trained in judo) In the current KKW program, it is a part of the ciriculum. In fact, the sports coordinator of the community center where I teach came to me & asked, "Could you use mats?" My reply? "You betcha!" When they come in, everyone will be falling!:ultracool
Not only is a standing up from a prone position and excellent workout, but a good breakfall can be theraputic too.
I've been to seminars where after the first day, when I start to tighten up, a nice hard sidefall streches me out and aligns my spine like a high impact chiropractic adjustment
I've been to seminars where after the first day, when I start to tighten up, a nice hard sidefall streches me out and aligns my spine like a high impact chiropractic adjustment
Shuto
Purple Belt
Not only is a standing up from a prone position and excellent workout, but a good breakfall can be theraputic too.
I've been to seminars where after the first day, when I start to tighten up, a nice hard sidefall streches me out and aligns my spine like a high impact chiropractic adjustment
I''ve had a similar experience, it's actually made my back feel better. And here I thought I was unique!
I equate it to a Swedish massage. That's the rough one isn't it?
That's a very good question.
IMO it's simply dangerous and irresponsible to expect students to take techniques that require rolling and falling (like sweeps, throws and joint locks) without first giving them a solid foundation in rolling and breakfalling. Even in point sparring and free fighting, it's easy enough to lose your footing and have to hit the mat.
Just a bit of context that should be relevant to this thread... before I started in Hapkido, I had spent a few years doing Ji Do Kwan. The JDK school where I trained, which is highly regarded, gave no training whatsoever in rolling and falling. I did not even know how to do a forward roll when I started Hapkido.
I wanted to express again how important I think it is for correct falling to be included in curriculums.
We took on a 2nd degree Kukkiwon who wanted to start at white with us and was amazed that he had to learn to fall at white belt. He expressed that he had never been taught any kind of tumbling or falling whatsoever in TKD.
This really concerns me. I have GS friends who have taken up TKD who are starting to be taken down and are starting to spar but are not being shown how to fall properly.
There is no doubt that correct falling has kept me from serious injury at least three times that I can be sure of just in daily life. Why would anyone teach their students about take-downs and allow them to be taken down without proper nak bup instruction???
Is this not a standard part of the Kukkiwon curriculum?
Please know I'm not trying to flame, just seeking some clarity. Thanks.
Yeek! Can I just say that I'm from an ITF background - not Kukkiwon - and we teach falling and rolling at white belt, for just those reasons discussed in this thread.
I don't recall Kukkiwon specifically mentioning falling in it's rank requirements. However, they have veryu few sepcific requirements (time at rank for BB's, forms)...all the rest, self-defense, one steps, falling becomes a funtion of individual schools. So, while Kukkiwom doesn't require falling...I don't think they discourage it either. There's a lot the Kukkiwon leaves up to individal schools within their required framework.
I'm with a Kukkiwon/WTF affiliated dojang and like I said earlier, we teach falling from day one. We start with rolling backwarsds from a sitting position, then standing. Later on we teach falling forward from kneeling then standingl. We also teach forward rolls from day one. Mid ranks learn to dive tumble...for my upcoming Bb exam I'll have to dive over 5 people kneeling and 3 people at my wasit height (peace of cake). It's certainly an important part of the curriculum.
Peace,
Erik
I'm with a Kukkiwon/WTF affiliated dojang and like I said earlier, we teach falling from day one. We start with rolling backwarsds from a sitting position, then standing. Later on we teach falling forward from kneeling then standingl. We also teach forward rolls from day one. Mid ranks learn to dive tumble...for my upcoming Bb exam I'll have to dive over 5 people kneeling and 3 people at my wasit height (peace of cake). It's certainly an important part of the curriculum.
Peace,
Erik
Just as important as knowing how to fall, breakfall and roll is also knowing how to not let someone breakfall or roll when doing a takedown or throw. Simple way's of doing this are when performing the takedown or throw to utilize a distraction strike while performing the technique. This strike usually causes the other person to become distracted or have a brain freeze while performing their breakfall and roll and they cannot complete it and thereby end up hitting hard. There are also other methods of not allowing a breakfall or roll during a takedown or throw which usually involve some type of positional leverage that forces the other person onto a knee to their spine or they fall on their head. Of course these things need to be practiced with someone who knows what they are doing (a good instructor) and also sometimes they can only be practiced with some kind of simulation dummy. (ie. Head plant form a Hip Throw)
I would also like to add to Brian's post that one can also take up the space that the attacker *needs* to actually roll out and that will stop them there, usually in a not so good position. Another thing that can be done is to change direction in the middle of the roll (not necessarily reversing it). Sometimes taking them perpendicular to their line of movement opens them up or compresses them and prevents a roll out. These are a just a couple more ways to stop that escape.
Importantly, both attacker and receiver need to have a certain level of skill or this could really injure the attacker.
I would also like to add that do not think the person applying the throw neccesarily is putting your body into the rolling motion. Example I was being thrown where a forward roll was the counter option, well this guy stopped his technique part way thru and since I was relying on his momentum I landed on the top of my head. So now I commit the full roll out myself. Neck injuries, and shoulders can be tough on ya.
rmclain
Black Belt
Teaching falling in WTF schools may be determined by the instructor leading the particular school and not a WTF requirement.
Seems to me there were quite a few Yudo instructors that made a switch and became Taekwondo instructors in the 1970's.
R. McLain
Seems to me there were quite a few Yudo instructors that made a switch and became Taekwondo instructors in the 1970's.
R. McLain
tkd_Jaz
Orange Belt
Our school doesn't really teach you how to fall except for instructing you that you should try to catch yourself with your arms when being hip tossed for example. We do different kinds of throws and sweeps (scissor sweeps are my favorite). As you practice these throws and are thrown a couple of times you eventually learn how to fall right...at least thats how I did.
