I think it is safe to say we can move this thread to the Judo section!
Excellent Video
- Thread starter Stealthy
- Start date
Perhaps I could ask Stealthy, why do YOU think this is an excellent video. I confess, I have scant knowledge of Ninjustsu but I believe I have a sound working knowledge of the softness of Aikido as expressed in the video clip. Without feeling the movements for myself, I can't tell if Uke is really being moved or just going along for the ride. ( I suspect the later because the foot movements don't support the former.)
I watched two of the other clips, including the Systema one, as I have attended a couple of Systema seminars and a few classes and have numerous DVDs. Once again he has a compliant partner and what is shown is typical of the normal systema training that I have observed. Nothing more.
I must confess, none of the clips I watched made me want to rush out and try what he was showing. There were certain principles of softness demonstrated that I know are valid, but there were also a lot of moves shown that I wonder if they would work if used on a less compliant partner.
Normally, if I wanted to work on Aikido techniques I would pick an Aikido video. Same for Systema, same for Ninjutsu. Here we have a guy with fingers in many pies but like the others I can't see a lot of relevance to Ninjustsu.
In the interests of discussion, what works for you in this video? (And, just so I don't sit through it for a third time, where in the clip do I find what you are talking about?) :asian:
I watched two of the other clips, including the Systema one, as I have attended a couple of Systema seminars and a few classes and have numerous DVDs. Once again he has a compliant partner and what is shown is typical of the normal systema training that I have observed. Nothing more.
I must confess, none of the clips I watched made me want to rush out and try what he was showing. There were certain principles of softness demonstrated that I know are valid, but there were also a lot of moves shown that I wonder if they would work if used on a less compliant partner.
Normally, if I wanted to work on Aikido techniques I would pick an Aikido video. Same for Systema, same for Ninjutsu. Here we have a guy with fingers in many pies but like the others I can't see a lot of relevance to Ninjustsu.
In the interests of discussion, what works for you in this video? (And, just so I don't sit through it for a third time, where in the clip do I find what you are talking about?) :asian:
- Thread Starter
- #23
It is ALL relevant because it is not Judo techniques but energy transmition basics, not just applicable to grappling but striking as well.
If the opponent shifts their weight onto one leg thereby cutting off the alternate flank you would "encourage the flank" thereby using the propensity for momentum in a given direction against them while also delivering strikes which facilitate their movement, then when they attempt to correct the mis-direction they can be flanked again in the opposite direction causing them to grossly over flank.
If the opponent drops low to strike, then strike down onto them to help them on their way and likewise as they step forward and raise their bodyweight you could strike up into the neck with a web hand....all very basic Ninjutsu tactics and techniques.
In fact the basics can be employed even before the opponent has breached tactical distance since short of meeting someone who can fly the weighted foot at tactical distance is not the foot they will be stepping in with.
Tactical distance can only be breached by stepping/lunging with the left or right foot or in Ninjutsu with a roll. Therefore knowing which foot they will place inside weapon range allows you to encourage their off centre motion.
If anyone still doesn't get it, try standing in a right Hicho no-kamae(which is left foot on the ground) and flanking left....if you can do it, I'll give you a prize.
If you want to get really specific 12:40 is a finer point useful for OMOTE/URA KOTE GYAKU DORI which I defy any Ninjutsu practitioner to claim is worthless.
So to re-cap the video is not about Judo, it was made by Judoka but it is about the Basics of using an opponents propensities for motion against them.
Now if you can find a High Definition video covering these Basics made by a Ninjutsu instructor then by all means post it but otherwise the link above retains its value irrespective of who made it.
I've answered your question out of courtesy for your manners when asking but with all due respect the heroes here are wasting my time.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Stealthy, perhaps it would have been better to put these in the General section? They are not Ninjutsu related other than you seeing some connection based on your personal take and understanding of the art, such things will not be apparent to anyone else, so getting upset and lashing out when others ask what on earth the connection is is rather pointless. Make sense?
When it comes to the videos in question, I can see what you're getting at, but really, these are only relevant to Ninjutsu if you want them to be. There are far too many differences for them to be straight transferances from one art to another. To give you an idea, my personal instructor was really into throws and ground work. To that end, he cross trained in Judo, BJJ, and a few other things, and encouraged myself and other seniors to do the same. But each time he would bring something from, say, Judo, it would always need to be modified to make it "Ninjutsu", bringing it into line with our mechanics and tactics. Most typically, what was brought in were training drills, rather than mechanics anyway, as we have enough throws as it is. My chief instructor, on the other hand, doesn't really like throws, he prefers striking aspects. There are a range of reasons for that, not really important here, but the point is that he would look at the Judo videos and say "Yeah, interesting, not really what we do though", whereas my personal instructor would look at them and say "what can I rip out of this for our benefit?"
Oh, and flanking to the left from a right Hicho? Easy. What's my prize?
When it comes to the videos in question, I can see what you're getting at, but really, these are only relevant to Ninjutsu if you want them to be. There are far too many differences for them to be straight transferances from one art to another. To give you an idea, my personal instructor was really into throws and ground work. To that end, he cross trained in Judo, BJJ, and a few other things, and encouraged myself and other seniors to do the same. But each time he would bring something from, say, Judo, it would always need to be modified to make it "Ninjutsu", bringing it into line with our mechanics and tactics. Most typically, what was brought in were training drills, rather than mechanics anyway, as we have enough throws as it is. My chief instructor, on the other hand, doesn't really like throws, he prefers striking aspects. There are a range of reasons for that, not really important here, but the point is that he would look at the Judo videos and say "Yeah, interesting, not really what we do though", whereas my personal instructor would look at them and say "what can I rip out of this for our benefit?"
Oh, and flanking to the left from a right Hicho? Easy. What's my prize?
- Thread Starter
- #25
You don't count, I said "short of finding somebody that can fly"...of course you can do it.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
All I'll say is that I know who Stealthy is, so I'm edging towards the latter.
Admin Note:
Thread moved to Jujutsu/Judo forum as being a more appropriate place.
jks9199
Super Moderator
Thread moved to Jujutsu/Judo forum as being a more appropriate place.
jks9199
Super Moderator
Grasshopper22
Orange Belt
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2012
- Messages
- 85
- Reaction score
- 0
Wow that's impressive!
Grasshopper, you seem to be hopping from thread to thread leaving cryptic comments. Can I ask what you found impressive? Was it Stealthy's inappropriate post or Chris' amazing ability to fly? :idunno:
Tanaka
Purple Belt
My guess is that he is very young.
