Europeans are finally waking up to the demise of democracy

[FearlessFreep]

Wildcat oil strikes: Europeans are finally waking up to the demise of democracy

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/...lly-waking-up-to-the-demise-of-democracy.html

The peoples of Europe have finally discovered what they signed up to. I do mean "peoples" (plural) because however much political elites may deceive themselves, the populations of the member states of the EU are culturally, historically and economically separate and distinct. And a significant proportion of them are getting very, very angry.

 

[CoryKS]

They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.

 

[Sukerkin]

I'm not sure I get what you mean there, Cory?

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I see the EU very similarly to as I see the United States of America.
The United States is a very different place state from state much like
the EU and even though the EU has different governments per country
there is certainly a similarity of that here in the States as we elect
Governors and Senate/House in every State. Now the US Government
is probably more powerful at this point than the EU political scene but
that may change in the future. Still there are some similarities.

 

[crushing]

I'm not sure I get what you mean there, Cory?

Don't worry about Cory, he picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.

 

[CoryKS]

I'm not sure I get what you mean there, Cory?

Sorry, it's a quote from an old movie.

 

[Sukerkin]

Well, now I get both movie references ... but I still don't get what you intended to say .

If you mean that by voting to go into the EU then people have now gotten what they deserved, you should know that Great Britain resisted very hard on that account. We still feel we were shanghied into it and have never gotten anything out of it but daft legislation and a big bill for the privilege :grr:.

 

[theletch1]

Well, now I get both movie references ... but I still don't get what you intended to say .

If you mean that by voting to go into the EU then people have now gotten what they deserved, you should know that Great Britain resisted very hard on that account. We still feel we were shanghied into it and have never gotten anything out of it but daft legislation and a big bill for the privilege :grr:.

I think that's exactly what he's talking about (correct me if I'm wrong, Cory) with membership in the EU. While the people of GB may have resisted the government of GB ultimately didn't and as the people of GB voted them in, then, by extrapolation, the people of GB voted to join the EU. Hey, I know how you feel. I'm reminded every April 15 that no matter how hard the people may fight something, often times the folks that wind up getting voted into office can squash the will of the people.

 

[Tez3]

The Eu is made up of very different countries, it's not in the least like the States. Many countries have a limited idea of democracy in the first place ie the former Soviet bloc countries. Others have different ideas of democracy from the Uk for a start.
Europeans aren't at all waking up to the demise of democracy, for some such as Poland it's still far more than they've ever had. To say it's the demise of democracy is a simplistic way to start an discussion.
There's much more to this than just slagging Europe off.

 

[CoryKS]

If you mean that by voting to go into the EU then people have now gotten what they deserved, you should know that Great Britain resisted very hard on that account. We still feel we were shanghied into it and have never gotten anything out of it but daft legislation and a big bill for the privilege :grr:.

I think that's exactly what he's talking about (correct me if I'm wrong, Cory) with membership in the EU. While the people of GB may have resisted the government of GB ultimately didn't and as the people of GB voted them in, then, by extrapolation, the people of GB voted to join the EU. Hey, I know how you feel. I'm reminded every April 15 that no matter how hard the people may fight something, often times the folks that wind up getting voted into office can squash the will of the people.

You both make very good points about the difference between what the people want and what the politicians actually give them. Although *that* sort of begs the question about how much democracy there was in the first place - here or there.

 

[Makalakumu]

The EU was desired by the "powers that be" so they "slagged off" on the will of the people. The politics are very complicated, but the desire of the ultra-elite for world government is ultimately behind the scenes on this.

 

[Ramirez]

The politics are very complicated, but the desire of the ultra-elite for world government is ultimately behind the scenes on this.

I don't think government had anything to do with it, more like being the ultra-elite of the economic powers, faced with NAFTA, and possible free trade with South America, what looks like a massive Asian alliance, it must have seemed like a good idea to have a giant economic entity...basically a huge free trade region.

It probably worked, the thought of the entire EU retaliating for the "buy American" provisions in the stimulus bill was enough to give Obama reason to reconsider.

 

[Ramirez]

I have to say I admire the French elan though, take a day off to plan the riot over Beaujolais and steak tartare, take a day off to hold the riot and celebrate with champagne and oysters, and finally take a third day off to recover from holding the riot with a Bordeaux and foie gras.

 

[Tez3]

One thing to remember also is that the European laws also allow British workers to work and start businesses in other countries (mostly France and Spain where the weather is nice and the living easy lol) but no one is complaining about that!