Equal Teaching?

[Jade Tigress]

I've often wondered about this, but the "Anyone can learn a Martial Arts " topic brought it to mind again.

There are a wide variety of people who come into the martial arts for a wide variety of reasons. When an instructor has an egotisical fool come in, does he limit the full content of his teaching to that person? When an instructor notices a highly devoted or skilled person, does he impart greater instruction to that person?

I'm not talking about time spent teaching, I'm talking about material taught. If an instructor has respect for his art, it would seem he would want only the *worthy* to receive the best or most complete knowledge, and the *unworthy* to receive only what they need to get by.

Do you think this is generally true? Is is true only in rare circumstances? What if someone initially appears highly devoted or skilled, but later reveals unbecoming characteristics? Do instructors determine who their serious students are and devote more to them, or do they view teaching as providing a service for which they are paid, and all students are equal because they pay equally?

What are your thoughts?

 

[terryl965]

Sil Lum TigerLady I know for me if a person is arrogant as you put it I will not teach them certain things but in time if they turn there attitude around for the better than I can always go back and add to there training. The one thing we as instructor have no control over when they are the perfect student you teach them certain things and they use it in the wrong way. It is always better to wait and see and teach at a later time then give them certain techs. that they will use as a general way.
Terry

 

[Aqua4ever]

I think it's human nature to devote further training to those you know are strongly deserving then to those that appear arrogant, weather it is intentional or not. I can also believe (and have seen) instructors boost their teaching towards a student when that student boosts his/her attitude to an appropriate level.
Interesting topic
Aqua

 

[bdparsons]

I've often wondered about this, but the "Anyone can learn a Martial Arts " topic brought it to mind again.

There are a wide variety of people who come into the martial arts for a wide variety of reasons. When an instructor has an egotisical fool come in, does he limit the full content of his teaching to that person? When an instructor notices a highly devoted or skilled person, does he impart greater instruction to that person?

I'm not talking about time spent teaching, I'm talking about material taught. If an instructor has respect for his art, it would seem he would want only the *worthy* to receive the best or most complete knowledge, and the *unworthy* to receive only what they need to get by.

Do you think this is generally true? Is is true only in rare circumstances? What if someone initially appears highly devoted or skilled, but later reveals unbecoming characteristics? Do instructors determine who their serious students are and devote more to them, or do they view teaching as providing a service for which they are paid, and all students are equal because they pay equally?

What are your thoughts?

Personally I think that you cannot seperate time from the issue, here's what I mean... It should never come down to how much material you teach an individidual, but rather how you are teaching the material. If you are teaching someone an art and/or ranking them in said art it is your ethical responsibility to teach all of the art (though there are instructors out there that will play fast and loose with what "all" means). What I think does come into play is the rate (time) at which you teach a particular individual based on their attitude. What this really comes down to is teaching to different personality types, and time is one of the most effective tools to approach this issue. By this I do not mean that you endeavor to rocket anyone through their training. You can structure your teaching in such a way as to mature some in their personality. Some will recognize it for what it is and be thankful for it; others will become impatient and move on. Either way the issue is resolved.

Respects,
Bill Parsons
Triangle Kenpo Institute

 

[Sarah]

I can only share what I have witnessed with my instructor...

He tends to treat all the same in the early belts, as he gets to know you he will spend more time on/with you.

One thing my instructor always said (which Raewyn and I did a lot)...if we needed help or had a question ASK!! We were always the first people at our instructor side after he had shown us something new, so that he could do it on us and we can be sure we are doing it right. Because we did this, after time he would automatically come to us to go through things!

He does has his favorite students which he will spend more time with, but that never stops anyone else for asking for help if they need it, you just have to take the initiative, being the shy person hiding in the corner will get you no where.

So basically what I am saying is that he will give the time and extra instructions to those that ask for it and want it.

 

[jdinca]

For us, the material is the material. All students follow the same path. Where the difference lies is in the way it's taught. If I've got someone who comes across as arrogant, I may very well be more detailed in pointing out weak areas that need improvement, just to clue them in that maybe they aren't as good as they think they are. If it continues, and is a problem, I'll have a private conversation with them to help modify behavior/attitude. In the end, if it still isn't working, they will still learn the material but instructors will probably not go the extra step to help them out. A student with a great attitude will get extra attention. If they have a good attitude and show a quick grasp of the material, I'll work on some of the finer, higher level details that they wouldn't otherwise get at the level they're at.

"When the student is ready, the teacher appears". This doesn't just apply to physical movement.

 

[Gemini]

SLTL,

Yes, I think your statement is true. I think any student who shows enthusiasm, an eagerness to learn and the maturity to handle it will get more attention than someone who's just taking up space. As an instructor, I would always rather teach someone who wants to learn. Don't most teachers, whether it's MA or anything else, enjoy the effort more when someone appreciates what they're doing?

We practice some things that can be dangerous even in rehearsal mode. Those who show a lack of restraint or respect for their partner don't learn them until if/when they do.

 

[FearlessFreep]

I have found that my enthusiasm and willingenss to listen and learn often gets me 'extra teaching'. Not formally but simply because I ask questions even outside of formal class time and such that my instructors have been willing to go a little extra with me

Whic I very much appreciate

 

[Flying Crane]

If a potential student shows up who seems to be arrogant or otherwise a pain in the rear, my sifus tend to just ingnore them until they go away. Due to the informal nature of our training arrangements, it works pretty well.

 

[Flying Crane]

Actually, this reminds me of one time when an arrogant guy showed up at the Wing Chun group. He expressed his belief that no one in the group would be up to a match with him. My sifu told him that he was probably right, and that the guy would be better off finding a different, "better" group to train with. The guy left and we went about our training.

 

[Phoenix44]

Yes, I do believe we teach students differently with respect to attitude, aptitude, and maturity level.

 

[green meanie]

I try to teach them all the same and I've let the sparring that we do at the end send its own message. The ones who are there for the right reason admire what I can do and keep coming cause they know I will help them get there. The arrogant ones on the other hand are humiliated and get humbled in a hurry. At that point they have a choice: get over it or don't bother coming back.

 

[MJS]

I've often wondered about this, but the "Anyone can learn a Martial Arts " topic brought it to mind again.

There are a wide variety of people who come into the martial arts for a wide variety of reasons. When an instructor has an egotisical fool come in, does he limit the full content of his teaching to that person? When an instructor notices a highly devoted or skilled person, does he impart greater instruction to that person?

I'm not talking about time spent teaching, I'm talking about material taught. If an instructor has respect for his art, it would seem he would want only the *worthy* to receive the best or most complete knowledge, and the *unworthy* to receive only what they need to get by.

Do you think this is generally true? Is is true only in rare circumstances? What if someone initially appears highly devoted or skilled, but later reveals unbecoming characteristics? Do instructors determine who their serious students are and devote more to them, or do they view teaching as providing a service for which they are paid, and all students are equal because they pay equally?

What are your thoughts?

Many times, when someone comes into a school with an attitude, one of two things will happen. 1) The instructor will ask them to leave or 2) they will not fit in with the rest of the group and will soon lose interest and leave on their own.

Of course, if the person is not showing that desire to learn, why spend that extra time? Sure you may end up changing their attitude, and if that happens, great, but if it does not, showing them the basic material should suffice.

Mike

 

[DeLamar.J]

I've often wondered about this, but the "Anyone can learn a Martial Arts " topic brought it to mind again.

There are a wide variety of people who come into the martial arts for a wide variety of reasons. When an instructor has an egotisical fool come in, does he limit the full content of his teaching to that person? When an instructor notices a highly devoted or skilled person, does he impart greater instruction to that person?

I'm not talking about time spent teaching, I'm talking about material taught. If an instructor has respect for his art, it would seem he would want only the *worthy* to receive the best or most complete knowledge, and the *unworthy* to receive only what they need to get by.

Do you think this is generally true? Is is true only in rare circumstances? What if someone initially appears highly devoted or skilled, but later reveals unbecoming characteristics? Do instructors determine who their serious students are and devote more to them, or do they view teaching as providing a service for which they are paid, and all students are equal because they pay equally?

What are your thoughts?

I think that certain types of people need certain types of training. The shy guy for instance, needs to be somewhat babied. The tough guy, needs to prove himself. By letting the tough guy fight, he will realize the error of his ways after he has been humbled enough times, and a mental growth will occur.
The shy guy, after being babied enough, will beg for contact, and a mental growth will occur.
You could almost call it martial therapy, instead of martial arts.
As an instructor, I try to figure out what each person needs in the interveiw, and during small talk. Its very easy once you get someone talking about themself, and most people love to talk about themselves.

 

[searcher]

I have been snapped at for my position on this before, but it has not changed. I limit the things I teach students until they are more responsible for what they are learning. You limit them until they show the maturity to respect the knowledge that they are receiving from you. If they are arogant then you have to slowly "break" them. It is not like we have some secret techniques that we hold back, but there are some techniques that are just to dangerous for immature students to learn.

 

[pete]

arrogance, or ego, is the single biggest barrier in a student's ability to listen, and therefore, learn. so it really less of a concern what the instructor is teaching to the 2 example students, and more a matter of who is listening!

of course, ego is also the biggest barrier in an instructor's ability to teach, so put an ego-maniacal instructor with a similar student, and one will show-off rather than teach and the other will try to out-do and not learn.

invest in loss... loss of ego, gain knowledge...

pete

 

[Grenadier]

For the kyu ranks, I will give everyone a chance to learn the more advanced techniques, regardless of how much I like, or yes, even dislike, them. However, the chance to get these techniques must be a two-way street.

First, and foremost, the student must demonstrate that he is ready to learn the techniques in question. If someone isn't ready to learn the technique, then I won't give it to them, plain and simple. If a particular student asks me why I didn't teach it to him, then I'll tell him what he needs to work on in order to fulfill the prerequisites. I'll even help him learn, if he's willing to listen.

As for the yudansha ranks, everyone is given a core of advanced techniques, and the chief instructor might teach a particular individual a technique that would work well for him.

 

[Tony]

I've often wondered about this, but the "Anyone can learn a Martial Arts " topic brought it to mind again.

There are a wide variety of people who come into the martial arts for a wide variety of reasons. When an instructor has an egotisical fool come in, does he limit the full content of his teaching to that person? When an instructor notices a highly devoted or skilled person, does he impart greater instruction to that person?

I'm not talking about time spent teaching, I'm talking about material taught. If an instructor has respect for his art, it would seem he would want only the *worthy* to receive the best or most complete knowledge, and the *unworthy* to receive only what they need to get by.

Do you think this is generally true? Is is true only in rare circumstances? What if someone initially appears highly devoted or skilled, but later reveals unbecoming characteristics? Do instructors determine who their serious students are and devote more to them, or do they view teaching as providing a service for which they are paid, and all students are equal because they pay equally?

What are your thoughts?

I know from my instructor he has said that our training and the philosophy doesn't appeal to everyone so those people who want to learn just to misuse Martial Arts are weeded out. Thankfully there are no egos and no one trying to kill each other while sparring! I have heard of incidents where my instructor has had to physically stop people in their tracks and told them never to return! Luckily this has not happened in a while!
My class is a very friendly place to be and the last thing you need is someone coming in and showing off! I might have mentioned in my other post about humility and how as martial artists we shodul be modest and humble. If a person has to go through boring routines in order to be humbled and learn respect then thats what has to be done and if they don't like it they can leave. When people get too aggressive or misbehave then punishments like press ups are given.

Occasionally i may have to spar with a girl and it may be my upbringing but i am always too scared to use too much power. But she has said that it does ehr more harm if i don't treeat her equally which i guess i strue otherwise she woudl chosen something less physical and my instructor is not sexist so does not allow favouritism of this sort.