Enviro-kook takes hostages at Discovery Channel HQ

[WC_lun]

What "leftist side?". I think Im misunderstanding you. Cuz my answer would be, the one to the left.

I didnt say mainstream, I said Leftist. Not all leftists are mainstream, and not everyone on the Right are either. But you need to attend some "Peace Rallies" in DC if you think none of the leftist groups are advocating Violence.

I've personally witnessed large groups of Socialists and left wing anarchists trying to incite violence at these rallies... or should I suppose those guys in their homemade riot gear with their riot shields cut from 50 gallon steel drums egging on the cops back in 08 weren't trying to incite anything, just there to pass out flowers and peace and love?

There are always gonna be idiots to the far side of both the left and right. Now name a left personality that is like that. Name a left person that uses fear and hate to drum up support for thier theories. I can name left talking heads that I think are a bit over the top, such as Obermann, but I've not seen the incendarary stuff in the left like that coming from the right. Perhaps that is because the left is in power at the moment. I don't know.

 

[Steve]

What "leftist side?". I think Im misunderstanding you. Cuz my answer would be, the one to the left.

I didnt say mainstream, I said Leftist. Not all leftists are mainstream, and not everyone on the Right are either. But you need to attend some "Peace Rallies" in DC if you think none of the leftist groups are advocating Violence.

I've personally witnessed large groups of Socialists and left wing anarchists trying to incite violence at these rallies... or should I suppose those guys in their homemade riot gear with their riot shields cut from 50 gallon steel drums egging on the cops back in 08 weren't trying to incite anything, just there to pass out flowers and peace and love?

I think that this is a big part of the problem. Associating "The Left" with anarchists and socialists. That's as bad as presuming that all conservatives are militiamen.

If, as a moderate liberal, I have to continuously account for every crackpot anarchist and socialist, we'll never have any meaningful dialogue. While I understand that these are on the left wing of the political spectrum, not every conservative is a fascist. Most aren't. And not every liberal is a socialist. Most aren't.

This goes the other way, too. Of course.

 

[Steve]

There are always gonna be idiots to the far side of both the left and right. Now name a left personality that is like that. Name a left person that uses fear and hate to drum up support for thier theories. I can name left talking heads that I think are a bit over the top, such as Obermann, but I've not seen the incendarary stuff in the left like that coming from the right. Perhaps that is because the left is in power at the moment. I don't know.

In fairness, Jenine Garafalo is pretty bad. Randi Rhodes isn't much better. They're cut from the same cloth as glen Beck and Bill O'Reilly.

 

[chrispillertkd]

Why? Why does everything have to be left v right? Do you have no middle ground then in America, only hatred of each other? Is everything to be seen only through your own political viewpoint? it's almost rabid this arguing, the only thing I've seen comparable to this is the Sectarian divide in Northern Ireland.

How about instead of judging an entire country by some posts on an internet politics forum you actually reserve making comments like the one above until you, oh, I don't know, come over and spend substantial time here getting to know the people, the culture and the politicians? You know, you could actually walk a mile in someone's shoes before judging them and get a more accurate view of things besides relying on the internet (the anonymity of which often results in a skewed presentation of people and things).

But if you want to denounce the Orangemen for giving people a big old middle finger every year go right ahead.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Cryozombie]

If, as a moderate liberal, I have to continuously account for every crackpot anarchist and socialist,

Show me where I said "Every"?

I said: "large groups of Socialists and left wing anarchists" meaning, the left leaning ones. Not All.

The sad thing is I came onto this thread stating both sides were equal guilty of having radicals and now I'm busy defending the right from you and WC, which was never my intention, so I'm gonna shut up and let you all get back to your fantasies that the Liberals fart roses and crap cupcakes and all the righties are Satan in disguise who wanna murder children and kick puppies.

I'm done.

 

[Archangel M]

I am unabashedly conservative. Do I believe EVERYTHING on FOX? Of course not. But at least I am being honest about my leanings. Unlike all the "moderate liberals" who want to pretend like they are being moderate while its actually passive aggressiveness. Man up and stand by your flag.

I don't subscribe to the "lets all pretend to be moderate here by not posting our opinions" crap that inevitably arises. Are we to not express what we TRULY think just for the sake of "peace"? It would be a sham peace if anything. If you don't like the topic don't participate. I can't understand the people who read these threads just so that they can "tsk tsk" people.

PS Tez-Unlike Ireland we can yell our politics at each other here and it rarely ammounts to anything more than..well...yelling. Don't compare your experiences to ours. While I disagree with some of the people here on idelogical grounds we dont resort to Mlotov Coctails and street assassinations (beyond the rare nutjob like the guy this thread is about).

 

[Steve]

Show me where I said "Every"?

I said: "large groups of Socialists and left wing anarchists" meaning, the left leaning ones. Not All.

The sad thing is I came onto this thread stating both sides were equal guilty of having radicals and now I'm busy defending the right from you and WC, which was never my intention, so I'm gonna shut up and let you all get back to your fantasies that the Liberals fart roses and crap cupcakes and all the righties are Satan in disguise who wanna murder children and kick puppies.

I'm done.

Tez, while guys like cryozombie really do try to make it look like there's no middle ground, that's only on the internet.

Cryo, are my only two choices anarchists and socialists or farting roses and crapping cupcakes? You're proving my point for me. It has to be extremes with you. No room for moderation.

 

[Steve]

I am unabashedly conservative. Do I believe EVERYTHING on FOX? Of course not. But at least I am being honest about my leanings. Unlike all the "moderate liberals" who want to pretend like they are being moderate while its actually passive aggressiveness. Man up and stand by your flag.

I don't subscribe to the "lets all pretend to be moderate here by not posting our opinions" crap that inevitably arises. If you don't like the topic don't participate. I can't understand the people who read these threads just so that they can "tsk tsk" people.

PS Tez-Unlike Ireland we can yell our politics at each other here and it rarely ammounts to anything more than..well...yelling. Don't compare your experiences to ours. While I disagree with some of the people here on idelogical grounds we dont resort to Mlotov Coctails and street assassinations (beyond the rare nutjob like the guy this thread is about).

In the real world, I'm actually more right than left on most issues. Here, though, I seem to be a hippy.

 

[Sukerkin]

How about instead of judging an entire country by some posts on an internet politics forum you actually reserve making comments like the one above until you, oh, I don't know, come over and spend substantial time here getting to know the people, the culture and the politicians? You know, you could actually walk a mile in someone's shoes before judging them and get a more accurate view of things besides relying on the internet (the anonymity of which often results in a skewed presentation of people and things).

But if you want to denounce the Orangemen for giving people a big old middle finger every year go right ahead.

Pax,

Chris

You do have to realise that your position there is on thin ice?

I concur fully with the overt, surface, meaning of your words. But the underlying precept is not tenable.

If you don't want 'us' here, you can just say so directly. I thought we (non-American residents) were welcome to voice our ill-informed views but it seems I may be in error on that front (amongst others).

 

[chrispillertkd]

You do have to realise that your position there is on thin ice?

I concur fully with the overt, surface, meaning of your words. But the underlying precept is not tenable.

If you don't want 'us' here, you can just say so directly. I thought we (non-American residents) were welcome to voice our ill-informed views but it seems I may be in error on that front (amongst others).

That's about as serious as I can get with your post. You don't think people should understand a culture before drawing sweeping generalizations about it? Come on.

Pax,

Chris

 

[WC_lun]

Honestly, it isn't like US culture is hard to understand. I actually think the view from a 3rd party can be a good thing. I'm willing to bet if the outside views mimiced your own, you wouldn't have a problem hearing them.

 

[Marginal]

You don't think people should understand a culture before drawing sweeping generalizations about it?

Dunno. We'd better take a poll on it first.

 

[jks9199]

Folks, not only is some of this drifting kind of far afield from the incident at the Discovery building -- it's getting kind of heated. This is The Study, and some heat is allowed -- but let's drop the personal attacks and name calling, and maybe try to shift back to the original topic, OK?

 

[chrispillertkd]

Honestly, it isn't like US culture is hard to understand.

To some extent, this is true. For people who live in that culture. For those who get their understanding of American culture (or any othne culture) from reading an internet BBS or watching television or even reading media outlets, not so much. There's no substitute for getting an inside view of a culture in order to understand it. But even within the group of those who are native to a particular culture there are degrees of understanding. There are those who understand better the culture than others. They've studied the country's history, current events, etc, and know how the country has developed. Having an understanding of the past is helpful in understanding how you got to the present and often times will help a person understand the direction a country is headed into the future.

I actually think the view from a 3rd party can be a good thing.

No one is suggesting otherwise. But not all views are accurate nor, for that matter, are all opinions drawn from observation equal.

I'm willing to bet if the outside views mimiced your own, you wouldn't have a problem hearing them.

LOL What a silly thing to say as it can easily be levelled right back at you. But agreeing with someone is irrelevant to what I said in response to Tez's post, which should have been obvious if you read it.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Big Don]

Dunno. We'd better take a poll on it first.

Bill, does Hillary know you're on the computer?

 

[Big Don]

Show me a clip of anyone from the right saying anything like THIS... (and not being pilloried for it...)

 

[Tez3]

How about instead of judging an entire country by some posts on an internet politics forum you actually reserve making comments like the one above until you, oh, I don't know, come over and spend substantial time here getting to know the people, the culture and the politicians? You know, you could actually walk a mile in someone's shoes before judging them and get a more accurate view of things besides relying on the internet (the anonymity of which often results in a skewed presentation of people and things).

But if you want to denounce the Orangemen for giving people a big old middle finger every year go right ahead.

Pax,

Chris

Actually if you read my posts, which I doubt you do before jumping in with your big feet, I was criticising the posts, yes the posts not the country not the politics of the country not the people, not the media... the posts, yes that's right the posts on here, on this thread, about this subject. Get off your high horse and start reading the plain English, I wanted to know why you lot on here write with such vitriol. Get your facts straight first.....unless that's the problem you don't understand what people are saying or meaning when they write so you jump to massive conclusions.


And if you think all the Orangemen do is give people the finger once a year you are very sadly mistaken, they kill and maim almost as many people as their opposite numbers in the Provos, shows how much you know.

 

[Marginal]

Bill, does Hillary know you're on the computer?

Here's a suitable answer for 'ya Don...

When the current deponent is positing a position, that said deponent of the aforementioned article shall be seen within the context of one's prior position as being within the justification of the parties involved bearing no further onus to outside agencies.

 

[Steve]

When I say that I'm a moderate, I mean just that. I lean left on some issues and right on others. I would like to think that most people are the same. Not too many years ago, being a moderate was a good thing.

I think that it's about time in this country for actual moderate voices to stop allowing radicals to control the dialogue. Archangel stands proud as a CONSERVATIVE (all caps because that's how he did it), as though that one word perfectly encapsulates his entire political and social platform. That's pretty non-specific, to me. 15 years ago, I could have told you what being a conservative meant, but that's all gone by the wayside.

I could say I'm a liberal, I guess, but that would only be to appease archangel so that he can fit me into a neat mental container. As I said before, I'm more to the left than most of this board, but I'm to the right of most everyone I know. I vote for lower taxes, am a pain in the *** of my local school board because they're always spending too much money. I think we need to reduce the size of government and am staunchly opposed to anything that smacks of big brother. I don't like the Grateful Dead or Phish. I tend to vote democrat on national ballots and GOP in my State government pretty consistently over the last several years. That's just how things shake out. Given the candidates and my positions, our state government needs more balance. Taxes are out of control along with spending and the Democrats have been in power for too long. Nationally, the GOP is a mess.

I don't listen to Randi Rhodes, and can't even tell you whether Garafolo or some of the others from Air America are even still on the air. Talk radio for me means The Men's Room on KISW, Rock of Seattle.

Calling any moderate voice a liar (childish behavior, particuarly from an "mt mentor" aside), is scary stuff, and exactly what I'm talking about. Shouting down the middle and tying everything to an extreme position isn't productive. If we're having a discussion about politics and things quickly devolve to fascists vs socialists... or around here, extreme conservatives vs everyone else, it's no wonder things get heated.

In my opinion, both the left and the right need to begin giving these radical voices the attention they deserve, which is little to none. At the same time, there needs to be a recognition that people who are zealots, particularly to the point that they plan and/or execute crimes such as the one in this thread, aren't representative of the group.

 

[Master Dan]

I can't help but wonder what the conversation here would have been like if the nut had taken over CNN demanding that they report that the President was not a natural born citizen? And that he had had an awakening after watching Glenn Beck.

Its not the point mental or political sane or insane 90% of the bad guys know they live a long time even if sentenced to death. My point is we need a more definative laws that give no quarter to violent offenders agianst unarmed or defenseles citizens. Incarceration is not a deterent to most of them pain and death on the spot or very soon is.

We don't need DNA when there are tens of witnesses or video. For those of you who want to talk in quiet soothing tones for peace and compansion. Lets see what you think when you or your family god forbid should encounter being confronted by violent criminals who consider you just food or prey??

And the worst are now corporations who have no concience but to the bottom line regardless of how many people they make sick or kill.
We need to punish CEO and others