Enough is Enough

[Ybot]

You can't drop someone on their head. That blunts the effectiveness of some throws. Are neck cranks illegal, or just never attempted?

MMA neck cranks are legal, but usually easy to defend. There was a fighter named Tim Catalpho (sp?) who was a Chiroprator, and who claimed to have a hugh arsenal of various cranks from various positions. The funny thing is that I never saw him pull them off (though I only saw a few of his fights).

Mark Kerr pulls off a vicious neck crank in Pride 10- Return Of The Warriors. This is a good show by the way, and if your into MMA at all I highly recomend this DVD.

 

[Rook]

You can't drop someone on their head. That blunts the effectiveness of some throws. Are neck cranks illegal, or just never attempted?

You can throw a person on their head in every MMA competition I am aware of.

You can even use huge suplexes like this one which failed to even faze the PRIDE heavyweight champion.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2609598051531896141&q=fedor+randleman&hl=en

Neck cranks are legal.

 

[MJS]

You can throw a person on their head in every MMA competition I am aware of.

You can even use huge suplexes like this one which failed to even faze the PRIDE heavyweight champion.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2609598051531896141&q=fedor+randleman&hl=en

Neck cranks are legal.

Perhaps this is what he is talking about:
http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=LearnUFC.Rules

18. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.

It should also be noted, that the rules for Pride:
http://www.pridefc.com/pride2005/whats_rules.htm

contain less DQ rules than the UFC.

 

[Warrior-Scholar]

That's why PRIDE is more exciting!!!

I bet that suplex would have had a bit more sting outside of a cushy ring!

 

[Andrew Green]

Kicking the knees is legal, always has been. And yes, it gets done, but not to the end result some people think it "should" have.

 

[Rook]

Perhaps this is what he is talking about:
http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=LearnUFC.Rules

18. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.

That refers to a pro-wrestling style pile-driver, not a suplex or judo throw. It's another of those stupid political rules we only have to deal with on American soil.

It should also be noted, that the rules for Pride:
http://www.pridefc.com/pride2005/whats_rules.htm

contain less DQ rules than the UFC.

True.

 

[zDom]

I think it bears mentioning that while certain injuries may not prevent a fighter from pushing through and finishing a match (endorphins and adrenaline enable this), they can take a long time and a lot of effort to rehabilitate,

and some atheletes are never the same again after an injuries even with rehab.

There are people I know that are presently not able to work out in the martial art of their choice because of knee or neck injuries.

Allowed, not allowed, easy to break, not easy to break, good rule, stupid rule -- it is easy to throw around comments when it isn't YOUR knee or YOUR neck that have been injured, when it isn't YOUR martial art career that has ended prematurely.

As somebody who has spent many years learning to kick really, really hard and fall really, really well (part of learning to throw really well), risking the ability to use these skills for money or bragging rights just doesn't seem worth it.

Nor does taking away someone else's ability for anything less than a geniune unprovoked attack.

 

[Selfcritical]

The only thing I disagree wholeheartedly with your post is the adaptiveness of the Marine Corps combat system. It is not based on BJJ, never has been. I taught L.I.N.E. training in the 90's to the guys in my unit, and the tan belt system is not based on BJJ. I got certified from Master Gunnery Sergeant Thomas Miller, aboard Camp Lejuene North Carolina. I am also teriffic friends with a Gunnery Sergeant who is a certified instructor in the Martial Arts program that the Marine Corps has adapted. You are wrong so quit trying. Showing a picture of the Gracies at the F.B.I. Academy in Quantico giving a seminar is not military doctrine. That my friend is a guest speaker.

In all actuality it is and remains to be more aikido/hapkido based. Arm bars, punching and kicking from a standing position. Never a take down. The last thing you want to do is go to the ground. They taught us that from day one.

I find it amazing that everyone has happily stated their background or experience but you have not. Could you please explain your experiences and background please. It would help a lot in your arguments.

Then it's changed significantly since you've done it. Ground positions are the VERY FIRST THINGS TAUGHT in the current MCMAP.

 

[born_fighting]

I trained in take downs for one reason, (and this is aplyed to untrained fighters,) who when desperate will try to take out your legs or take you off your feet, watch some videos of untrained fighters online, 100% of the fights start on there feet and 85% go to the ground.

I met and trained with Royce Gracy did a 6 hr seminar in Port Alburnie about 2 months after his fight with Matt Huges, And the stuff he was teaching was pritty basic... Thats saying How fast things Advance, when gracy's jujutsu is basic Knowledg.. That also means there are more ground fighters out there then one would think.. It's the flavour of our century, CATCH UP!

 

[Kreth]

100% of the fights start on there feet and 85% go to the ground.

Check out the quote in my sig... :uhyeah:

 

[Ybot]

I trained in take downs for one reason, (and this is aplyed to untrained fighters,) who when desperate will try to take out your legs or take you off your feet, watch some videos of untrained fighters online, 100% of the fights start on there feet and 85% go to the ground.

I met and trained with Royce Gracy did a 6 hr seminar in Port Alburnie about 2 months after his fight with Matt Huges, And the stuff he was teaching was pritty basic... Thats saying How fast things Advance, when gracy's jujutsu is basic Knowledg.. That also means there are more ground fighters out there then one would think.. It's the flavour of our century, CATCH UP!

I want to say that I have taken several seminars with Royce Gracie, and have had the oppertunity to roll with him. He does teach a lot of basic stuff at his seminars, but you have to remember that he is adjusting his instruction to the people attending. I found that his name drew people who had no previous experience in BJJ. In these cases it's a good thing to teach basic stuff. Most of his seminars were on the basic side, but don't mistake that for Royce not knowing more advanced stuff.

 

[Warrior-Scholar]

Name a seminar that didn't spend much of time on basics? Unless you went to an all black belt training seminar or something like that, you will most likely be taught basic ideas.

 

[Ybot]

Name a seminar that didn't spend much of time on basics? Unless you went to an all black belt training seminar or something like that, you will most likely be taught basic ideas.

We also had Rolker Gracie give a seminar at the place I use to train. Pretty much the only ones there were members of our school. His audience had more mat savy than the audience Royce taught. He was able to see we had a good base, so he could build a bit more. Still not super advanced, but definitely beyond what Royce was able to teach.

 

[Marginal]

That refers to a pro-wrestling style pile-driver...

Possibly. Somehow I think they were reacting to a Frank Shamrock fight moreso than pro wrestling.

 

[Marvin]

The Marine hand to hand combatives are not based on BJJ. Unfortunately, the Army's is. They've been getting some negative feedback from the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan about it as well.

This isn't a dig on BJJ, it's a great art. Not suited for working while wearing body armor and lots of gear though.

Jeff

I don't think any martial art translates well while wearing body armor and lots of gear.

 

[Tez3]

I'm not trying to start another argument here but when someone said about going into a Marine barracks and calling them out I had to laugh. I know many people where I am ( the largest Garrison in Europe - full of British Paras, Gurkhas and Infantry) who would be more than happy - no I'd say down right eager to do it! That aside, I think people seem to be hung up on BJJ as opposed to MMA. To my mind these are two different things.

 

[matt.m]

I'm not trying to start another argument here but when someone said about going into a Marine barracks and calling them out I had to laugh. I know many people where I am ( the largest Garrison in Europe - full of British Paras, Gurkhas and Infantry) who would be more than happy - no I'd say down right eager to do it! That aside, I think people seem to be hung up on BJJ as opposed to MMA. To my mind these are two different things.

Tez3, Me and the mates have many hrs logged getting pissed and scraping the ole blimey Brits overseas. Some great scraps.

 

[Tez3]

Tez3, Me and the mates have many hrs logged getting pissed and scraping the ole blimey Brits overseas. Some great scraps.

LOL! The British squaddie is never backwards in coming forward to fight! Sadly at the moment the Garrison is fairly empty as most are in that sandy place while others are in Afghanistan.I also teach children at our club and most of their fathers are away, as are a lot of the adult members, men and women. I'm very afraid that some of them aren't coming back.