chinto
Senior Master
I knew about bassai dai, was not sure about tekki, and had no clue about empi. so yes it did help. thanks.
Empi and Ananku!
- Thread starter JasonASmith
- Start date
I knew about bassai dai, was not sure about tekki, and had no clue about empi. so yes it did help. thanks.
Brandon Fisher
Master Black Belt
Great glad it helped.
chinto
Senior Master
Ok so is Niseishi actualy a diferent spelling some how for Naihanchi kata? if not i dont have a clue what kata niseishi is.
chinto
Senior Master
OK, thanks! I have to say that is one that is not in the system I study. So I have no clue what is in it.
Brandon Fisher
Master Black Belt
I could be wrong but I believe Niseishi is mainly a naha-te kata. I know Goju Ryu and I believe Ryuei Ryu both have it in the system.
Brandon Fisher
Master Black Belt
I stand corrected. I looked it up and its actually in Ryukyu Kempo which means primarily Tomari-Te in origin from there I didn't look back further. But Ryuei Ryu does practice it.
chinto
Senior Master
ok,, my system is mainly Tamari-Te but we do not have that kata in it.
Not that we dont have plenty of kata.. 23 empty hand kata are enough for any one :shotgun:
Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu
Blue Belt
Here's a question I'd like to put out to everyone here. In the style I study (Shogen Ryu) there are 18 traditional hand forms that are taught. By the time you grade for your Shodan you are required to have learned 13 of those Kata and by 5th dan all 18. I personally think that's too many Kata to ask anyone with that limited experience to learn. Anyone agree? Disagree? For anyone interested here are the requirements.....
Shodan: Fukyugata Ichi, Ni, Pinan 1-5, Naihanchi 1-3, Ananku, Wankan, Rohai
Nidan: Wanshu, Passai
Sandan: Gojushiho
Yondan: Chinto
Godan: Kusanku
All thoughts and opinions greatly appreciated.
Shodan: Fukyugata Ichi, Ni, Pinan 1-5, Naihanchi 1-3, Ananku, Wankan, Rohai
Nidan: Wanshu, Passai
Sandan: Gojushiho
Yondan: Chinto
Godan: Kusanku
All thoughts and opinions greatly appreciated.
Jin Gang
Green Belt
It depends how long you spend before grading to shodan. In four or five years, those kata aren't too much. It sounds like Shogen ryu is an offshoot of Matsubayashi Ryu, as they have the same kata (fukyugata ichi was invented by matsubayashi ryu's founder, and isn't taught anywhere else). In my school, we had Wankan before shodan. Ananku and Wanshu at shodan, and Rohai and Passai at nidan.
Tomari Te, Naha Te, Shuri Te are not "hard and fast" categorizations. Teachers from all the areas shared kata with eachother, and had different versions of the same kata. Basically, there is no difference between "shorin" and "shorei", shuri, naha, and tomari...just different methods and different kata taught by different teachers. They don't fit neatly into categories. We can note differences and similarities in the karate of all schools. Some people say naihanchi was originally a naha kata. It was taught by teachers both from tomari and shuri. So which is it?
As for the original poster of this thread...I think that is too many kata to learn in just a few months. How long exactly have you been practicing, that you have learned all those kata already? But I guess each teacher has their own theories. Maybe he is just trying to expose you to things, so that you can find what suits you and start practicing that exclusively?
Learn just the moves of each kata, and then let you specialize in the fighting techniques of just one or two of the kata for the next few years?
I guess it depends on what your goals are. Karate kata are relatively short and simple, if the goal is just to memorize the patterns and perform them then that's no trouble at all, take in as much as you can...but there is a depth in even the simplest kata which need to be explored through crossing hands, and two person drills that take time to internalize and make work for you. I guess as long as you go back and do this with all the kata over the years, then learning the movements early on isn't doing any harm. Some people may just be jealous that you get to learn so many katas in such a short time, when in their school they have to train for years before seeing most of those (jk)
Tomari Te, Naha Te, Shuri Te are not "hard and fast" categorizations. Teachers from all the areas shared kata with eachother, and had different versions of the same kata. Basically, there is no difference between "shorin" and "shorei", shuri, naha, and tomari...just different methods and different kata taught by different teachers. They don't fit neatly into categories. We can note differences and similarities in the karate of all schools. Some people say naihanchi was originally a naha kata. It was taught by teachers both from tomari and shuri. So which is it?
As for the original poster of this thread...I think that is too many kata to learn in just a few months. How long exactly have you been practicing, that you have learned all those kata already? But I guess each teacher has their own theories. Maybe he is just trying to expose you to things, so that you can find what suits you and start practicing that exclusively?
Learn just the moves of each kata, and then let you specialize in the fighting techniques of just one or two of the kata for the next few years?
I guess it depends on what your goals are. Karate kata are relatively short and simple, if the goal is just to memorize the patterns and perform them then that's no trouble at all, take in as much as you can...but there is a depth in even the simplest kata which need to be explored through crossing hands, and two person drills that take time to internalize and make work for you. I guess as long as you go back and do this with all the kata over the years, then learning the movements early on isn't doing any harm. Some people may just be jealous that you get to learn so many katas in such a short time, when in their school they have to train for years before seeing most of those (jk)
Brandon Fisher
Master Black Belt
No I don't think its to many at all I require 12 for shodan plus a couple of weapons kata. Thats pretty typical for traditional schools.
chinto
Senior Master
for shodan ho (probationary shodan) rank in Shobayashi Shorin ryu you are required to know and have polished 23 kata (empty hand) and at least 3 or 4 minumum kobudo/kobujitsu kata.. usualy about 5 or 6.
Brandon Fisher
Master Black Belt
Thank you for illustrating my point beautifully.
Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu
Blue Belt
Personally I think it should be more geared towards the student, some people learn quicker and can pick things up faster than others. I know some who can look at a for once and just like that not a problem. I know others that can practice a form over and over and over, and still not quite seem to get it. I know that some (not by any means all) schools grade based mostly on forms.
Brandon Fisher
Master Black Belt
Very true that some learn faster than others and thats ok, but that does not mean things should be made easier. I have been in martial arts pushing 24 years and I will tell you that when I started training it was different. People nowadays want to take the easier route, well there is no easy route in karate unless you change it, then in my mind its not karate. I have taught people who have ADHD, are blind, are deaf, or have some other problem that makes it difficult for them to learn or train. Even my own wife has a severe balance problem caused by a birth defect and she is testing for Nidan next month. I personally don't look at just the persons ability but their attitude towards their training, their work ethic, and what kind of person they are. That all factors in to the final decision. But I grade on not only kata but also, Kihon, Tuite, Nage Waza, Atemi Waza, Kyusho, Kumite (various types) and academic knowledge of karate.
TimoS
Master of Arts
Sorry, but you are mistaken on that. Yes, the kata was created by Shoshin Nagamine sensei, but it is taught in many other styles. I am currently doing Shorin ryu Seibukan and both Fukyugata are part of our curriculum. In fact, I think that most okinawan styles carry both these kata, with maybe slight variations.
Brandon Fisher
Master Black Belt
Timo is correct the Fukyugata series is taught in most Shorin Ryu systems in similar or exact to Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu. Fuykyugata Sandan is the one that is not taught in most systems only in a handful.
chinto
Senior Master
you are perfectly welcome sir. ... especialy as it was a simple statement of fact.
