Electric car system that might work...

[billc]

I am not personally against the electric car, as some might think here on the talk, but only government manipulation to force us into electric cars because of a silly global warming hysteria, and helping their cronies make money. For example, our governor here in illinois wants to charge a dollar on your renewal fee for your license plates for electric car infrastructure. That is a waste of money in a state already broke. However, this article details an electric car system that might actually work...

http://pjmedia.com/blog/is-israel-making-the-electric-car-work/

That deal is even better than it sounds for several reasons. You don’t actually buy the very expensive battery, but only lease it along with all the electricity you’ll ever use. Any time that it becomes empty, you can swap it at no additional charge.

By June, all of Israel will be serviced by a network of battery swap stations. You drive in to what resembles a car wash, sit in your car for 4 minutes, and the automatic system swaps your battery for a full one. The robotic station than recharges the old battery overnight for another vehicle. The battery has at least a 100-mile range — a huge headache in the United States, but far less daunting in a small country like Israel. About the longest drive you’d ever take, the 220 miles from Tel Aviv to Eilat, can be accomplished with two quick battery swaps.

It is still not better than using gas, but at least someone is spending more time thinking about making it work and not on how to use the government to force people into electric cars by making gas more expensive, or raising fees on regular cars to make electric ones more competitive.

 

[Steve]

The idea of leasing tge battery is one that nissan considered, but it wasn't possible in the usa because it amounts to selling a car without a drive train. In other words, without the battery, it's not a car.



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[billc]

I have to go, but a four minute fuel time would meet my complaint about how long charging takes. I like that kind of thinking to get around that problem. If you could also plug in at home, as well as change it out, at a cost the same as or less than filling up on gas, and you have one problem solved.

 

[Steve]

the idea of swapping batteries is something I brought up well over a year ago. but the way that our auto sales and registration is set up, you wouldn't be able to register the car without a drive train.

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[MaxiMe]

Interesting. But I'm still waiting for a truck

 

[Rich Parsons]

Interesting. But I'm still waiting for a truck

http://www.hybridcars.com/trucks/gm-hybrid-pickup-trucks.html

Hybrid, not a Plug in yet.

 

[Omar B]

And here I am seriously thinking of droppin' a Cummins or Allison turbo diesel into my car.

 

[Steve]

What's stopping you, Omar?

 

[Omar B]

Not a damn ting. I'm actually looking at a 850HP Cummins engine right now.

 

[Steve]

Sounds great. I live in an area where there are a lot of trucks. The area is rural and lots of people work on farms. We have horses, goats, sheep, and lots of alpaca farms, too. Most rational people completely understand the need for vehicles that are fit for the job.

But, even further than that, I think people should have choices, and THAT is why I LOVE the idea of pushing and pushing the market to open up and offer real alternatives to what is essentially a 100+ year old technology. Everyone makes choices based upon priorities. For me, it's about two main things: energy independence and money. As far as I'm concerned, if you have the money to purchase, maintain and operate a truck when gas is $5/gallon, go for it. Not my business.

Point is, everyone makes decisions, but the more choices, the better. I've had to learn to live with my EV. While nothing major, I drive a little differently now than I did with a gas car. But the trade off for me has been well worth it. I haven't been to a gas station since June and have over 7000 miles in my EV now. I have saved over $1250 in gas in just 6 months, plus another $40 on the oil change I no longer need. My total cost in operating the car: less than $250 in electricity (although I'm going to need to replace the wiper blades soon). I would need some MAJOR incentives to ever go back to a gas car voluntarily. I don't even enjoy the way they ride now.

The only thing that bugs me is that the same guys who ***** about government subsidies of EVs and alternative fuels are also the first to expect the Fed to step in and subsidize oil if prices go up (and blame Obama, too). It's hypocrisy.

Well, honestly, the insecurity of SUV owners bugs me, too. I've found that people who drive in SUVs are far more worried about what I'm driving than I am of them.

 

[Carol]

Sounds great. I live in an area where there are a lot of trucks. The area is rural and lots of people work on farms. We have horses, goats, sheep, and lots of alpaca farms, too. Most rational people completely understand the need for vehicles that are fit for the job.

But, even further than that, I think people should have choices, and THAT is why I LOVE the idea of pushing and pushing the market to open up and offer real alternatives to what is essentially a 100+ year old technology. Everyone makes choices based upon priorities. For me, it's about two main things: energy independence and money. As far as I'm concerned, if you have the money to purchase, maintain and operate a truck when gas is $5/gallon, go for it. Not my business.

Point is, everyone makes decisions, but the more choices, the better. I've had to learn to live with my EV. While nothing major, I drive a little differently now than I did with a gas car. But the trade off for me has been well worth it. I haven't been to a gas station since June and have over 7000 miles in my EV now. I have saved over $1250 in gas in just 6 months, plus another $40 on the oil change I no longer need. My total cost in operating the car: less than $250 in electricity (although I'm going to need to replace the wiper blades soon). I would need some MAJOR incentives to ever go back to a gas car voluntarily. I don't even enjoy the way they ride now.

The only thing that bugs me is that the same guys who ***** about government subsidies of EVs and alternative fuels are also the first to expect the Fed to step in and subsidize oil if prices go up (and blame Obama, too). It's hypocrisy.

Well, honestly, the insecurity of SUV owners bugs me, too. I've found that people who drive in SUVs are far more worried about what I'm driving than I am of them.

I dunno if its insecurity, but there was a stretch of years where it seemed like "SUV driver" was spat like a curse word and we were being strung up as the Devil incarnate if an environmental issue came up in conversation. Or the criticism that I don't "need" an SUV. Hey, so-and-so doesn't have one, why do you need one? It gets tiring. But it doesn't bother me what you drive....I think its awesome that you are driving an EV and even more awesome that you're sharing your experiences.

And I agree with you 100 percent, the more choices the better IMO.

 

[Steve]

I dunno if its insecurity, but there was a stretch of years where it seemed like "SUV driver" was spat like a curse word and we were being strung up as the Devil incarnate if an environmental issue came up in conversation. Or the criticism that I don't "need" an SUV. Hey, so-and-so doesn't have one, why do you need one? It gets tiring. But it doesn't bother me what you drive....I think its awesome that you are driving an EV and even more awesome that you're sharing your experiences.

And I agree with you 100 percent, the more choices the better IMO.

Well, I definitely have a bias against women who drive SUVs, but it has nothing to do with their gas mileage.

Seriously, though, there's a lot of pigeonholing that goes on. People presume a lot of things about you based on what kind of car you drive. If you're a guy in a Miata, the stereotype is that you're gay. Guys in lifted trucks are overcompensating. Guys in porsches are rich but still overcompensating. Etc, etc. And electric cars are for treehugger, envirokooks.

Ultimately, though, buying into the stereotypes only make us easier to manipulate. Bob drives a Prius, and we all know that Prius owners are pompous, well to-do, liberal elitists, and we HATE them. Conversely, Judy drives an SUV, and we all know that SUV owners are pretentious, selfish, self-centered jerks, and we HATE them!

And all it takes is one YouTube video recording someone having a very bad day and it's all over.

 

[ballen0351]

Not a damn ting. I'm actually looking at a 850HP Cummins engine right now.

What kinda car do you have? Heres what you need that turbo winding up sounds so cool:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUiDQd2NZpU&feature=related

 

[ballen0351]

And all it takes is one YouTube video recording someone having a very bad day and it's all over.

Sorry coulndt resist

Or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MG--TMe7j8&feature=related

 

[Omar B]

What kinda car do you have? Heres what you need that turbo winding up sounds so cool:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUiDQd2NZpU&feature=related

Lexus ES350. Already fast as heck and handles like a dream because it's a Lexus. I wanna make it the ultimate sleeper.

Couple weeks ago I saw on Pimp My Ride they put an Allison Diesel in an old 70's Monte Carlo and it got zero to sixty in under three seconds and beat a Lambo in a quarter mile. Allison engines are cool, but when my grandfather owned the trucking company my dad and uncles used to always go with a Cummins engine in all the trucks so I would prefer to go that route.

Dude, that video rocked! The engine sounds so great just running, then the friggin turbo started spooling up and I couldn't keep the smile off my face. I've now made that video a favorite.

 

[Steve]

There's a street legal, 100% EV Datsun 1200 that runs 0 to 60 in 1.8 seconds. That's my idea of a sleeper.

 

[Omar B]

Nah. It would stand out too much. I'm planning on using my father's ES350 because it's 5 years old and trade him my new ES350 for it. Heck, if I could get away with it in a Camry I would. A sleeper has got to look as standard and as stock as you can get.

Oh, btw, I'm now on like my 9th viewing of that same youtube vid.

 

[Steve]

Sounds great. I live in an area where there are a lot of trucks. The area is rural and lots of people work on farms. We have horses, goats, sheep, and lots of alpaca farms, too. Most rational people completely understand the need for vehicles that are fit for the job.

But, even further than that, I think people should have choices, and THAT is why I LOVE the idea of pushing and pushing the market to open up and offer real alternatives to what is essentially a 100+ year old technology. Everyone makes choices based upon priorities. For me, it's about two main things: energy independence and money. As far as I'm concerned, if you have the money to purchase, maintain and operate a truck when gas is $5/gallon, go for it. Not my business.

Point is, everyone makes decisions, but the more choices, the better. I've had to learn to live with my EV. While nothing major, I drive a little differently now than I did with a gas car. But the trade off for me has been well worth it. I haven't been to a gas station since June and have over 7000 miles in my EV now. I have saved over $1250 in gas in just 6 months, plus another $40 on the oil change I no longer need. My total cost in operating the car: less than $250 in electricity (although I'm going to need to replace the wiper blades soon). I would need some MAJOR incentives to ever go back to a gas car voluntarily. I don't even enjoy the way they ride now.

The only thing that bugs me is that the same guys who ***** about government subsidies of EVs and alternative fuels are also the first to expect the Fed to step in and subsidize oil if prices go up (and blame Obama, too). It's hypocrisy.

Well, honestly, the insecurity of SUV owners bugs me, too. I've found that people who drive in SUVs are far more worried about what I'm driving than I am of them.

Well, 10 years later, and I have ordered my third EV. We ordered a base model (Select trim) Mustang Mach E. About 220 mile range, and plenty of room for the hounds (though it will be cozy).

I miss that Leaf, though I will admit that I liked my PHEV C-Max a lot, too. I didn't think I would care for a PHEV, but found that with the regenerative breaking and everything, I would fill up my gas tank like once every 6 months. It was great.

That said, 200 miles is plenty of range for me, and we have another car if we need to go further.

 

[geezer]

Well, 10 years later, and I have ordered my third EV. We ordered a base model (Select trim) Mustang Mach E. About 220 mile range, and plenty of room for the hounds (though it will be cozy).

I miss that Leaf, though I will admit that I liked my PHEV C-Max a lot, too. I didn't think I would care for a PHEV, but found that with the regenerative breaking and everything, I would fill up my gas tank like once every 6 months. It was great.

That said, 200 miles is plenty of range for me, and we have another car if we need to go further.

Hmmm... 200 miles isn't enough for the traveling I do, and I don't have a garage, so I don't know where I'd put a charger. I don't imagine stringing an extension cord out to the curb and leaving it all night would be very practical. Well, I've never had the interest or money to be an "early adopter" of tech. But change happens fast. Hopefully in a few more years, EVs will be so much the norm that a lot of these things will be worked out ...and maybe the price on used ones will be within my budget.

Getting back to the original direction of this thread, apparently the idea of battery exchange stations has been considered, tried, and so far, rejected for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that different manufacturers can't agree on a common design, as well as the fact that people like to outright own their stuff ...right down to the batteries in their cars. Saw a clip where Elon Musk said that.

Still, I always wondered why EV designers never considered a universal and standardized portable battery pack for all EVs that could be used to extend range or allow a discharged vehicle to continue on to the next charging station.

You know, something any AAA tow truck could deliver if you got stranded, just like carrying a spare gas can for gasoline powered cars. For people that travel a lot off the beaten path or who live in the boondies, something like that would make a lot of sense.

We are still very early in our transition to EVs, though. I suspect a lot of these things will develop organically over time in response to demand.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Hmmm... 200 miles isn't enough for the traveling I do, and I don't have a garage, so I don't know where I'd put a charger. I don't imagine stringing an extension cord out to the curb and leaving it all night would be very practical. Well, I've never had the interest or money to be an "early adopter" of tech. But change happens fast. Hopefully in a few more years, EVs will be so much the norm that a lot of these things will be worked out ...and maybe the price on used ones will be within my budget.

Bury a line out to where you park and put a box on it. One of those weather-proof outlets like RV owners use.
I agree that EV is the wave of the future, but the infrastructure needs a lot of development. The same thing was no doubt true when ICE vehicles were new.

Getting back to the original direction of this thread, apparently the idea of battery exchange stations has been considered, tried, and so far, rejected for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that different manufacturers can't agree on a common design, as well as the fact that people like to outright own their stuff ...right down to the batteries in their cars. Saw a clip where Elon Musk said that.

Still, I always wondered why EV designers never considered a universal and standardized portable battery pack for all EVs that could be used to extend range or allow a discharged vehicle to continue on to the next charging station.

Maybe because a Tesla battery pack weighs 900lbs. Swapping the batteries is a job for a fork lift...

You know, something any AAA tow truck could deliver if you got stranded, just like carrying a spare gas can for gasoline powered cars. For people that travel a lot off the beaten path or who live in the boondies, something like that would make a lot of sense.

A 5 gallon can of gas weighs like 30-35lbs. The corporate average fuel economy is about 25MPG. So that 5 gallons will take you about 125 miles.
Tesla claims about 400 miles on a charge. So a pound of batteries is a bit less than 0.5 miles. miles. So 35 pounds of batteries will take you about 15.5 miles. Hardly worth the effort to change batteries.
I think to make EVs truely viable as primary transportation, they need to match ICE vehicles.
Example. When we go to visit Sue's parents, we drive 1135 miles in 16 hr and 54 minutes.
Same trip planned using Teslas site to find Supercharger stations is is 1173 miles. But it takes 21 hr and 19 minutes. Almost 4.5 hours longer. The distance from their home to the nearest Supercharger is 144 miles. So I'd need to plan on leaving the car plugged in to their household current for the 20-40 hours it takes to fully charge it before starting home.
Expanding the infrastructure is just a time thing. And the charging times and such should improve over time as well. But right now, I would not want to do any serious traveling in an EV.