Effective Technique

[K-man]

Man jailed over Rye one-punch death

Death was from the fall, not the punch.

Mr Cassai fell straight backwards, hitting his head on the pavement and fracturing his skull. He died of his injuries at The Alfred hospital about 4pm on December 31.

One-punch death Craig Field pleads not guilty to murder

More difficult to find the cause of death. Nothing to say it was the punch.

Justice Fullerton said after Mr Kane fell to the ground Field left the pub without checking on him and has never shown remorse for his actions.

Raynor Manalad dies after alleged one-punch assault at Rooty Hill party

Again the facts aren't stated in the article you are quoting. Nothing in the article giving the cause of death.

It is alleged Garth punched Mr Manalad once to the head shortly after 1am on Saturday, causing him to fall onto the concrete, after the 21-year-old nursing graduate tried to intervene during a fight between his accused attacker and his girlfriend at a party in Minchinbury.
.....
Mr Manalad, who was also 21, suffered extensive bleeding on the brain and died in Westmead Hospital the next day.

Extensive bleeding of the brain could be as a result of a punch but is far more likely to be from the head striking the ground.

However his solicitor made a claim that means that you might have difficulty with case law because even his solicitor said there is none.

Garth's lawyer, Riyad El-Choufani, told the court Garth should be granted bail because he needed full access to his legal team to build a defence to the charges, which are new and have no legal precedent.

If anyone gets into a fight and one party falls to the ground hitting his head it is likely that the assailant will go to jail. But nothing here supports your claim of case law proving that one punch kills. The case law is that if you get in a fight and someone dies you will go to jail unless you are the innocent party. I can guarantee the likelihood of that too.

My 'guarantee' is if you gouge someone's eye you will go to jail and I gave you three examples where the courts sent people to jail for gouging eyes.

then there is enough case law to guarantee a punch kills you. You may want to re think your evidence there.

Perhaps you need to rethink your evidence!

 

[K-man]

Out of all the victims on those three stories you posted all but one died of injuries as a result of their head hitting the ground.

And the third one just states that the guy was left unconscious on the ground without care. Could have died from head injury or could have choked.

 

[RTKDCMB]

And the third one just states that the guy was left unconscious on the ground without care. Could have died from head injury or could have choked.

The one I was referring to died because his jaw was broken the jaw bone severed an artery.

 

[Transk53]

I wouldn't give that advice to anyone. Groin grab without a huge yank probably isn't going to work. As for going for the eyes. Ask any woman if she was about to be raped and possibly killed if she would prefer that to surviving relatively unscathed and living with the knowledge that she blinded her potential killer. I reckon I know the answer already.

So with no knowledge of your lady of the door, her advice might well be fine for the door but that advice has no place on the street.

Yeah point taken!

 

[Transk53]

3-5 seconds is an entirely reasonable time frame. Seriously.

Don't disagree. Did not know it could be that quick. Guess I watch too much TV.

 

[tkdwarrior]

Hmmmm....ok if you are in a situation where you had to defend yourself, you do what you have to do. I wonder if a woman or anyone who is about to be attacked thinks of the legal conseqeunces or how to preserve herself/themselves from harm?

As I say if you do not want to be whacked, stay clean do not bother or hassle people. Very simple. If you do then be sure you will be able to live with the consequences of your actions.

 

[ballen0351]

Hmmmm....ok if you are in a situation where you had to defend yourself, you do what you have to do.

depends on the situation. Sometimes its safer to just comply sometimes its safer to just run and sometimes you need to fight

I wonder if a woman or anyone who is about to be attacked thinks of the legal conseqeunces or how to preserve herself/themselves from harm?

Im sure some think about it. Unfortunately there is alot of misconceptions about whats legal and whats not

As I say if you do not want to be whacked, stay clean do not bother or hassle people. Very simple. If you do then be sure you will be able to live with the consequences of your actions.

Very simple but sometimes even innocent people are made victims

 

[drop bear]

And the third one just states that the guy was left unconscious on the ground without care. Could have died from head injury or could have choked.

regardless. You show three examples where eye gouging sent people to jail. Three examples do not mean everybody who eyegouges someone goes to jail. Just they have in three instances.

And if they did go to jail every time you could not really support teaching it could you?

 

[drop bear]

If I am pushing my thumbs into someone's throat i am not trying to lift them up so I don't know what that would prove.

it would prove that it is a terrible grip. I tried to lift a kettle bell with it. And couldn't. So no wonder people break out of it around the neck.

 

[Steve]

there are a few issues here. First, I don't think a news report of someone going to jail is necessarily "case law". I'm not a lawyer, so take this for what it's worth, but my impression is that case law are cases that are establishing or changing existing precedent. A random story about a dude who attacks his girlfriend isn't case law. At least, I don't think it is.

Second, that an eye gouge or a punch were associated with a case doesn't mean the eye gouge or the punch were salient to the decision. A news report about a guy who assaults his girlfriend without provocation and pokes her eye out doesn't make the eyegouge salient. He could have cut her finger off or in any other way maimed her and the results would be the same. The salient point is that he wasn't defending himself. He was attacking her. A quick glance at all of these news links you both shared, none of them involve self defense, that I could see.

I really don't think this entire line of discussion is very meaningful or sensible. It's just chaff muddying up the discussion. That's my opinion, at least.

 

[Aiki Lee]

This thread is starting to make less and less sense the more I read it.
I'm following ballen0351 and K-man's arguments okay, but I'm understanding the points some of the rest of you are trying to say.

It sounds like people are not distinguishing between an eye poke and an eye gouge. Eye gouges cause serious damage and eye pokes are irritating best used as a set up tactic.

The choking thing has me lost; it sounds like some of you are talking about RNC and others about "Frankenstein" choke where you coke with two hands from the front.

Would people mind summarizing their views?

 

[Transk53]

This thread is starting to make less and less sense the more I read it.
I'm following ballen0351 and K-man's arguments okay, but I'm understanding the points some of the rest of you are trying to say.

It sounds like people are not distinguishing between an eye poke and an eye gouge. Eye gouges cause serious damage and eye pokes are irritating best used as a set up tactic.

The choking thing has me lost; it sounds like some of you are talking about RNC and others about "Frankenstein" choke where you coke with two hands from the front.

Would people mind summarizing their views?

For me it is quite simplistic, but probably somewhat naive. I don't think that eye gouges in any context. Messing with someone's sight is just plain wrong. That is my concerted viewpoint!

 

[drop bear]

This thread is starting to make less and less sense the more I read it.
I'm following ballen0351 and K-man's arguments okay, but I'm understanding the points some of the rest of you are trying to say.

It sounds like people are not distinguishing between an eye poke and an eye gouge. Eye gouges cause serious damage and eye pokes are irritating best used as a set up tactic.

The choking thing has me lost; it sounds like some of you are talking about RNC and others about "Frankenstein" choke where you coke with two hands from the front.

Would people mind summarizing their views?

Ok. For me it started with neck attacks and i mentioned that i have had a lot of success with c chokes.

it was then mentioned that there are easy escapes. Which i disagreed with.

it was suggested the two handed Frankenstein is a stronger technique which i disagreed with.

and that i can be effectively enough eye gouged from that position to release the choke. Which i disagreed with.

otherwise there seemed to be a lot of semantics.

 

[K-man]

regardless. You show three examples where eye gouging sent people to jail. Three examples do not mean everybody who eyegouges someone goes to jail. Just they have in three instances.

And if they did go to jail every time you could not really support teaching it could you?

Then show me one instance of an eye gouge where the person did not go to jail. Remember, we are not talking about poking someone in the eye or pushing with the thumbs in the eye socket. We are talking of actually eye gouging.

But that is beside the point. I gave three illustrations to demonstrate 'case law'. What I showed was three instances where an attacker eye gouged a victim. I know of no instances where a victim has gone to jail for eye gouging their attacker.

I justify teaching it by saying in a serious situation it is a valid technique, especially for females. I teach several techniques that can be lethal. Doesn't mean people are necessarily going to use those techniques, but they have them available in an emergency.

 

[K-man]

Ok. For me it started with neck attacks and i mentioned that i have had a lot of success with c chokes.

it was then mentioned that there are easy escapes. Which i disagreed with.

it was suggested the two handed Frankenstein is a stronger technique which i disagreed with.

and that i can be effectively enough eye gouged from that position to release the choke. Which i disagreed with.

otherwise there seemed to be a lot of semantics.

I'm not sure anyone suggested an eye gouge against the choke.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I'm not sure anyone suggested an eye gouge against the choke.

No one did, what they did do was say they doubt the eye gouge story is true

 

[drop bear]

Perhaps it might be fair to say it might paralyse an untrained person because his attention is on the potential danger. You see it all the time when you train newbies. They will try to take your hands off by grabbing the wrists. They can't believe how simple it is when the roles are reversed and you reach for the eyes.

I'm with ballen. Grab my throat and make sure you protect your eyes and groin. One way or the other you are going to wish you hadn't done it.

yeah cant imagine who mentioned eye attacks.

 

[Steve]

Then show me one instance of an eye gouge where the person did not go to jail. Remember, we are not talking about poking someone in the eye or pushing with the thumbs in the eye socket. We are talking of actually eye gouging.

But that is beside the point. I gave three illustrations to demonstrate 'case law'. What I showed was three instances where an attacker eye gouged a victim. I know of no instances where a victim has gone to jail for eye gouging their attacker.

I justify teaching it by saying in a serious situation it is a valid technique, especially for females. I teach several techniques that can be lethal. Doesn't mean people are necessarily going to use those techniques, but they have them available in an emergency.

Can you show me an example of a victim successfully eye gouging an attacker? I think it would be interesting to see a news story about a person who successfully fended off an attacker with an eye gouge. I looked but maybe my google-fu is not as strong as yours.
For what it's worth, I'm still not sure you're using the term "case law" correctly, but I would welcome correction from someone who knows better.

Not sure if k-man is still ignoring me or not, so if anyone else could find a relevant example, I'd appreciate it.

 

[drop bear]

Can you show me an example of a victim successfully eye gouging an attacker? I think it would be interesting to see a news story about a person who successfully fended off an attacker with an eye gouge. I looked but maybe my google-fu is not as strong as yours.
For what it's worth, I'm still not sure you're using the term "case law" correctly, but I would welcome correction from someone who knows better.

Not sure if k-man is still ignoring me or not, so if anyone else could find a relevant example, I'd appreciate it.

Cookies must be enabled. The Australian

found one against a shark.

 

[Tez3]

Then show me one instance of an eye gouge where the person did not go to jail. Remember, we are not talking about poking someone in the eye or pushing with the thumbs in the eye socket. We are talking of actually eye gouging.

But that is beside the point. I gave three illustrations to demonstrate 'case law'. What I showed was three instances where an attacker eye gouged a victim. I know of no instances where a victim has gone to jail for eye gouging their attacker.

I justify teaching it by saying in a serious situation it is a valid technique, especially for females. I teach several techniques that can be lethal. Doesn't mean people are necessarily going to use those techniques, but they have them available in an emergency.

I know a case where the person who did gouge out eyes didn't go to prison. He was a soldier in Aldershot Garrison, he got angry at his mate, attacked him, beat him and gouged his eyes out, literally. That soldier is now blind and the attacker is not in prison, he's in a secure mental hospital (Broadmoor) as he's regarded as dangerously insane, he didn't go to trial because he was 'sectioned' and it's very unlikely he will ever be released.