DVD software ? for Nick Burns

[mj-hi-yah]

RC,

Just to let you know it was a PAL/NTSC issue. He had never burned anything for viewing in the US so he'll rerender and resend.

Thanks for the advice!

MJ :asian:

 

[Akula]

Glad to be of assistance.

How's the selection process for DVD authoring software going?

 

[mj-hi-yah]

Glad to be of assistance.

How's the selection process for DVD authoring software going?

Hi RC!
Right now I'm just working on how to get my project printed back to tape through Vegas...think I finally got it! Now I just need a couple of hours to convert it. Also I want to view it on the tv before the showing, because of the color corrections in the titles. My first project looked so great, and then when I put it back to tape I was so disappointed in a couple of the titles...bleeding and funky colors, but I had no time to make corrections before the viewing. I got a couple of tips like outlining the words in the titles, but I still need to learn a bit about the colors for television as opposed to the computer. I did read somewhere if it looks good on the computer it's probably wrong. :uhohh: uhoh...I think it looks too good still :lol:

It looks like the version I have of Nero needs updates for authoring so with time running out I may just work on that issue after my test in two weeks. I'll worry about showing the video for the test, and then make the copies when I have more time to trial stuff...remember we talked about how fast those 30 days go?, so I'll have more time to really check the programs out after the test. It makes sense to wait at this point I think. I'll stop back and let you know how it goes.

Here's something fun - after my test my friend has agreed to show me how to make a baby talk like an adult. I can't wait! It's a lot of key frame work but so worth it! What's not to love about all of this!

I'll also drop back and let you know how the viewing goes and the burning when I get that far.

Talk to ya later,
MJ

 

[Akula]

Also I want to view it on the tv before the showing, because of the color corrections in the titles. My first project looked so great, and then when I put it back to tape I was so disappointed in a couple of the titles...bleeding and funky colors, but I had no time to make corrections before the viewing. I got a couple of tips like outlining the words in the titles, but I still need to learn a bit about the colors for television as opposed to the computer. I did read somewhere if it looks good on the computer it's probably wrong.

You know, this is one item I thought about bringing up earlier, but didn't feel like typing too much at the time. When you think of color images on the computer, the RBG values range from 0 to 255 per color channel, whereas your standard television uses the ranges of 16 to 235 (roughly). The quick way to adjust this is to take your graphics program, and adjust the output levels to 16 and 235. From experience, the color range is visually more restictive. Pay a little closer attention to reds. Personally, I like to clip the reds from about 35 to 180. On the computer screen the titles will look dark, washed out, boring... but on the tape, they should be fine.

Also, the tv has a problem generally going directly from black to white. This is just a product of how the signal is processed in the tv. When making your titles, either use anti-aliasing, or apply a blur of up to 1 pixel. Strange, but by adding the blur, the titles will look clearer on the television screen.

By the way, you are staying in the title safe area, right? :ultracool

 

[mj-hi-yah]

You know, this is one item I thought about bringing up earlier, but didn't feel like typing too much at the time. When you think of color images on the computer, the RBG values range from 0 to 255 per color channel, whereas your standard television uses the ranges of 16 to 235 (roughly). The quick way to adjust this is to take your graphics program, and adjust the output levels to 16 and 235. From experience, the color range is visually more restictive. Pay a little closer attention to reds. Personally, I like to clip the reds from about 35 to 180. On the computer screen the titles will look dark, washed out, boring... but on the tape, they should be fine.

It's interesting about the red, because come to think of it that was the one color in my last project that looked awful in the final product - the rest, even if a little different from what I intended, was livable. When it comes to the color correction I've just left the default settings in place...mostly because I didn't understand it all. So just now I went looking for the vectorscope (radar like screen) to check it out and *PHEW* the defaults are set to the parameters you described (which probably explains why the other colors looked fine in the last project), but I know I used red at least one time for an intro to a Fighting Cats segment in this project. I'll have to check that one for sure. As far as making the changes I'm not even sure how to even begin to describe how I haven't a clue how to use the vectorscope. :lookie: I do have the sound editing down using the mixer though! I don't see a place to select a color range in numerical values when generating the media. Does the correction for individual titles have to take place using the vectorscope? If I select an individual title I can see along the timeline how the color range is shown on the vectorscope allowing for the fades in and out, but I don't see a place on the vectorscope to plug in a change for that particular title. I'll have to play around with it tonight, or just completely change the background color of that title. :uhyeah: that's the ticket...

Also, the tv has a problem generally going directly from black to white. This is just a product of how the signal is processed in the tv. When making your titles, either use anti-aliasing, or apply a blur of up to 1 pixel. Strange, but by adding the blur, the titles will look clearer on the television screen.

With this, are you talking about there being a problem when fading or cutting from black to white? Or are you referring to black and white being next to each other in a title? If it's the second choice, I think I may have addressed this. I read somewhere that you should not use a pure white on black and instead use an off-white color to avoid an undesirable result. If this is not what you mean than do you apply the blur or anti-aliasing to all of your titles or just when there is the black and white issue?

By the way, you are staying in the title safe area, right? :ultracool

Yes, that one I've got down....like... uhhhhh.... a semi-pro :lol:

MJ

 

[mj-hi-yah]

I had a couple of minutes so I fooled a bit with it and found the histogram and other tools (RGB Parade) but I'm still not sure how they work:idunno: ...I wanted to put a screenshot of it here, but I couldn't figure how to put a pic here, and I'm out of time for now so I'll try again later.

 

[Akula]

As far as making the changes I'm not even sure how to even begin to describe how I haven't a clue how to use the vectorscope.

Basically, the vectorscope is a testing tool to let you see the color balance of your video, compared to a baseline (the color bar pattern you've undoubtedly seen before). If you have your camera put the color bar pattern on the tape you're shooting, then you can take tapes shot at different times, with different lighting conditions, and then use the vectorscope to color balance the different scenes. Maybe you noticed if you shoot under florescent lights, the footage might look a little green, or with regular incandescent lights, it might look a little yellow/orange - this will help balance that out a little, if you don't try to adjust for this when shooting (white balance on the camera.) I like to use the vectorscope more as a guideline and then tweak from there to get the balance I'm looking for at the moment.

Think of the move "Matrix" when the scenes shot in Thomas Anderson's office building, or the police interogation room where they had an overly greenish/lowered contrast feel, whereas when he was 'Neo' the colors were more vivid and real. The film makers decided to use these different colors to convey different settings/moods. Play with the colors at times to develop different moods, afterall, this is your film, so make it look like you want to, show it to a few friends and ask for thier opinions, and make adjustments from there if you feel they are necessary.

I don't see a place to select a color range in numerical values when generating the media. Does the correction for individual titles have to take place using the vectorscope?

Again, I use the vectorscope as a general testing tool. Even though mine is tied to the software and can make changes, I still prefer to do it on my own. Start with how you make your titles. If you use a titler, look there - different programs call it different things. You might have an overall setting in your titleing software that says something like "Use NTSC safe colors" or something like that, or just make sure the red channel for the color you pick does not go above 180 or so. If you don't use a titler and make the titles in Photoshop or somethink like that, you can either use (in Photoshop) the Filters>Video>NTSC colors, or go to Image>Adjustment>Levels and change the output range. I usually use the latter because I can change each color channel individually, hence more of a tweak to the reds. Most imaging programs will have at least one of these items to adjust your titles.

Just save as a high quality image preferrable as a tiff, psd, or other non-compressed format your editing software can see, avoiding the compression issue with jpeg images. If you have to use jpeg, use the least amount of compression possible (in Photoshop a compression setting of 12 has virtually no loss of data). Import into your editing software and you're on your way.

With this, are you talking about there being a problem when fading or cutting from black to white? Or are you referring to black and white being next to each other in a title? If it's the second choice, I think I may have addressed this. I read somewhere that you should not use a pure white on black and instead use an off-white color to avoid an undesirable result. If this is not what you mean than do you apply the blur or anti-aliasing to all of your titles or just when there is the black and white issue?

I should have been more specific, but I was referring to the latter issue. Think down to the individual pixels at any certain time. When black is immediately next to white, in video and titles, you can introduce a sort of flutter or throbing appearance. Again, this goes back to how televisions process the information into something you can see. You're right about not using 'pure' white or black. Think back to the color safe range we talked about. For a computer, white has the RGB values of 255,255,255. Each one of these is outside the upper range of an NTSC signal, thus 'illegal' colors, and same with the black on a computer being 0,0,0, again below the bottom range of the signal.

For a basic title, usually, I like to sample colors off of the footage itself, and use those for the titles. I'll pick something in the lighter range that generally conveys the color of the whole scene, and then select a color in the darker end of the scenes and use that for a shadow. If you can't sample color directly off of the video, export just one frame, bring that to your image editing software and sample the colors there.

Yes, try use the blur/antialias for pretty much any title, even if it's huge on screen. My titler will make the proper antialiasing adjustments on its own. If built in Photoshop, I'll make the adjustment there before importing. If something really interesting, say out of a 3D program, I'll have it make the adjustments as the animation is rendering out.

Oh, another reason to use the blur and/or color safe range. Essentially the NTSC signal is converted to an electrical signal, which then determines the pixels on the screen. If something is using an 'illegal' color, or if there is an abundance of black and white pixels immediately next to each other, this causes in simple terms, the television to get confused on what its trying to process, and the result is audio interference (hey, it has to put that erroneous information somewhere) Granted this isn't as prevalent today, but still happens. Think about it this way, you're watching tv, at a comfortable audio level, and your signal drops out for whatever reason, and you get a screen full of static. Notice how this is much louder than what you were just watching. It's all those black and white pixels next to each other 'fighting' (actually its an electrical thing )

On a final note for this post, I find it mildly enjoyable that an innocent question about DVD authoring and burning has turned into a mini course in video production. I like it...hey, wait - I usually get paid for this! Just kidding, no worries.

 

[mj-hi-yah]

Basically, the vectorscope is a testing tool to let you see the color balance of your video, compared to a baseline (the color bar pattern you've undoubtedly seen before). If you have your camera put the color bar pattern on the tape you're shooting, then you can take tapes shot at different times, with different lighting conditions, and then use the vectorscope to color balance the different scenes. Maybe you noticed if you shoot under florescent lights, the footage might look a little green, or with regular incandescent lights, it might look a little yellow/orange - this will help balance that out a little, if you don't try to adjust for this when shooting (white balance on the camera.) I like to use the vectorscope more as a guideline and then tweak from there to get the balance I'm looking for at the moment

:ultracool ...I have noticed different lighting effects on the color of a clip. This I'll have to play with as I do more filming.

Think of the move "Matrix" when the scenes shot in Thomas Anderson's office building, or the police interogation room where they had an overly greenish/lowered contrast feel, whereas when he was 'Neo' the colors were more vivid and real. The film makers decided to use these different colors to convey different settings/moods. Play with the colors at times to develop different moods, afterall, this is your film, so make it look like you want to, show it to a few friends and ask for thier opinions, and make adjustments from there if you feel they are necessary.

I love the effects in the Matrix and did notice the lighting changes. I'm starting to look at movies in very different ways than I used to. I've shown stuff to people before and it really is helpful, but well they don't all quite get it, except for those who share the hobby, because no one loves your baby like you do . Ya know?

Again, I use the vectorscope as a general testing tool. Even though mine is tied to the software and can make changes, I still prefer to do it on my own. Start with how you make your titles. If you use a titler, look there - different programs call it different things. You might have an overall setting in your titleing software that says something like "Use NTSC safe colors" or something like that, or just make sure the red channel for the color you pick does not go above 180 or so. If you don't use a titler and make the titles in Photoshop or somethink like that, you can either use (in Photoshop) the Filters>Video>NTSC colors, or go to Image>Adjustment>Levels and change the output range. I usually use the latter because I can change each color channel individually, hence more of a tweak to the reds. Most imaging programs will have at least one of these items to adjust your titles.

I'll play around to look for how to adjust the red in Vegas. I read a lot about it awhile ago, but I was not using it at the time and didn't absorb it. I know you are right there is a way there. It's also good stuff on Photoshop. So far I did all the titles in Vegas, but I wanted to create something to import so I'll try that for the next project.

Just save as a high quality image preferrable as a tiff, psd, or other non-compressed format your editing software can see, avoiding the compression issue with jpeg images. If you have to use jpeg, use the least amount of compression possible (in Photoshop a compression setting of 12 has virtually no loss of data). Import into your editing software and you're on your way.[/ QUOTE] I'll do that.

For a basic title, usually, I like to sample colors off of the footage itself, and use those for the titles. I'll pick something in the lighter range that generally conveys the color of the whole scene, and then select a color in the darker end of the scenes and use that for a shadow. If you can't sample color directly off of the video, export just one frame, bring that to your image editing software and sample the colors there.

That's interesting! I like the idea of the title keeping the same feeling of color of the piece, and what better way than choosing colors that are reflected in the footage? For the project I'm working on now I tried to have the titles reflect the mood of the topic about to be to be discussed in the film. So for Fun I used a cycling happy color scheme and font, and for Power bold black with strong lettering etc., I tried to match the background effects to the mood I wanted to convey as well.

Yes, try use the blur/antialias for pretty much any title, even if it's huge on screen. My titler will make the proper antialiasing adjustments on its own. If built in Photoshop, I'll make the adjustment there before importing. If something really interesting, say out of a 3D program, I'll have it make the adjustments as the animation is rendering out.

Some of my titles are created in one piece, and some are overlays of background effects, and I've played a little with shattering 3D stuff (very fun!) So do you apply this only to the lettering to the background or both?

Oh, another reason to use the blur and/or color safe range. Essentially the NTSC signal is converted to an electrical signal, which then determines the pixels on the screen. If something is using an 'illegal' color, or if there is an abundance of black and white pixels immediately next to each other, this causes in simple terms, the television to get confused on what its trying to process, and the result is audio interference (hey, it has to put that erroneous information somewhere) Granted this isn't as prevalent today, but still happens. Think about it this way, you're watching tv, at a comfortable audio level, and your signal drops out for whatever reason, and you get a screen full of static. Notice how this is much louder than what you were just watching. It's all those black and white pixels next to each other 'fighting' (actually its an electrical thing )

May the pixel with the best karate kick win! :btg: Hee hee...OK...This makes sense, and yes I hate that loud static like when a videotape has ended.

On a final note for this post, I find it mildly enjoyable that an innocent question about DVD authoring and burning has turned into a mini course in video production..

:uhyeah: Hee hee I guess I should have warned ya my avatar is the stray cat...always be careful feeding the stay cat once you feed 'em well you can imagine ...

I like it...

Oh good!

hey, wait - I usually get paid for this! Just kidding, no worries

*Clink* giggle OK here's another quarter for the meter. :lol:

 

[mj-hi-yah]

Hi RC,


Just a little problem I'm having if you happen to tune in. I rendered my project back to a digital tape, and on viewing, in four places in short clips the quality of the pieces were negatively affected. The tape either jumped, like looked jittery for a couple of seconds, or in one instance slowed down quite a bit during a mirror effect. It's disappointing because they look so wrong to me and I was just wondering if you had any clue as to what might cause this. The first project I did I put onto a VHS tape using a converter and had no loss in quality. I thought the digital tape would be best, but now I'm not so sure. I went back into the project to check the four spots and they all played fine on the computer. I will try to redo it on a new digital tape tonight and see what happens.

Thanks for any thoughts you might have on this!

MJ

 

[mj-hi-yah]

Ok, it's a little bit funny, but I've sort of come full circle. The digital tape idea was so frustrating :waah: and just wasn't working, so I wound up using Roxio's "limited edition" software to burn the DVD with a lot of help (basically it was done for me, because I was running out of time to try and figure it out and learn it all and Saturday was coming up way too fast :uhohh: ). No time to learn the chapters and all, but after this week I can play with it for future burns, and then decide if I want to go for the better packages. I was very relieved to get it done, and very happy because the quality is excellent! I can't wait to show it on Saturday!!! Instead of using the camera to show it I am bringing a travel DVD player. It's the perfect solution at this point!

:angel:Thanks so much - really for everything! I totally appreciate having you to bounce all of these ideas off of and especially am grateful for your sharing all of your experience with it all (hope I haven't bugged you too much:asian: ). I'll have to print out this whole conversation for future reference. It's great talking to you about all of this! On the DVD the color looks fantastic including the reds and all the effects burned perfectly as I had hoped for! YEAH!!! artyon:



I'll drop back next week to let you know how the viewing goes.



MJ

 

[Akula]

The tape either jumped, like looked jittery for a couple of seconds, or in one instance slowed down quite a bit during a mirror effect.

Printing to tape can be an intesting experience in itself. I can't really point to specifics without knowing what sort of deck you were using, how you were exporting out of your computer, deck settings, computer settings, cables...

One quick idea outside of the above items, especially for effects, is the computer trying to render the effect in real time as it's trying to export. If so, this can cause very erratic screens. One quick solution if this is the case is to render out the effect portion as its own video clip. Import that new clip into the editing software, and drop it where the original effects are, and delete the original effect and all its layers. The video should look pretty much the same, however it doesn't have to work as hard when exporting that section.

No time to learn the chapters and all, but after this week I can play with it for future burns, and then decide if I want to go for the better packages.

Small steps are also a very good idea. When you do the chapters, just think of them as placemarks in the video file itself. For fun, get creative with the chapter names. Instead of 'Chapter 3...' maybe come up with a witty saying or something like that.

Okay, this just inspired a different idea I need to write down to try and use later, but its in response to your question, so I'll share it. When building the chapter navigation menu, break them into groups of three for ease in getting around, and have each chapter title in the triumverate be a different line of a haiku. Just make sure each line goes a little with the chapters' themes. For the next block of three chapters, another haiku. Different - but I believe it could work.

hope I haven't bugged you too much

No worries

Glad to hear it turned out, and hope the viewing goes well.

 

[mj-hi-yah]

Printing to tape can be an intesting experience in itself. I can't really point to specifics without knowing what sort of deck you were using, how you were exporting out of your computer, deck settings, computer settings, cables...

Going to tape is really not what I intended to do from the start anyway so it's fine if it didn't work out. Also, it forced me to get the DVD done, and it's the quality I was looking for so I'm really happy about it.

One quick idea outside of the above items, especially for effects, is the computer trying to render the effect in real time as it's trying to export. If so, this can cause very erratic screens. One quick solution if this is the case is to render out the effect portion as its own video clip. Import that new clip into the editing software, and drop it where the original effects are, and delete the original effect and all its layers. The video should look pretty much the same, however it doesn't have to work as hard when exporting that section.

I could see applying this without the tape issue. I haven't explored it yet, but is that the same thing basically as prerendering a section of the project while still in the project?

Small steps are also a very good idea. When you do the chapters, just think of them as placemarks in the video file itself. For fun, get creative with the chapter names. Instead of 'Chapter 3...' maybe come up with a witty saying or something like that

Yes I definitely like that idea. Everything else is so creative so I think the titles should be catchy or at least fitting too. I'm in the middle of working on a project where people are in a race in cardboard cars. It's very silly stuff and the footage is just hysterical. So I called the segment The Tijuana Taxi and found a pair of swinging animated dice to put with the title and then layed a track with that tune in the background. The whole thing came out so funny - watching it always makes me smile.

Okay, this just inspired a different idea I need to write down to try and use later, but its in response to your question, so I'll share it. When building the chapter navigation menu, break them into groups of three for ease in getting around, and have each chapter title in the triumverate be a different line of a haiku. Just make sure each line goes a little with the chapters' themes. For the next block of three chapters, another haiku. Different - but I believe it could work.

Good luck with that. If you can, let me know how the poetry writing goes.

No worries

OK

Glad to hear it turned out, and hope the viewing goes well.

Thanks!

MJ :asian:

 

[Akula]

I could see applying this without the tape issue. I haven't explored it yet, but is that the same thing basically as prerendering a section of the project while still in the project?

Basically, yes. My system can do many different video/graphic/audio tracks before I have to start rendering sequences. At times however, I could be dealing with up to 10 layers composited together. At that time, I'll render the clip layers that I know are where I want them to be into a single file. I'll then bring that in and move the original layers off. Those 10 layers just became maybe three or four, and quicker rendering at the end.

Good luck with that. If you can, let me know how the poetry writing goes.

Well, I don't really go into this area (writing poetry) - just hire someone to do it for me, or find someone that just wants exposure.

On a side note, I found the following different ones on a video game review section of techtv.

Samurai warriors,
As they clash in the moonlight
Hit those buttons fast

and

Late noble warriors
Or create a new fighter
Both kill gracefully

and

View nature's beauty
Under the cherry blossoms
I slew many men

and one of my favorites from here

Hear the techno beat
Clashing blades ring through the night
Samurai season

 

[mj-hi-yah]

Basically, yes. My system can do many different video/graphic/audio tracks before I have to start rendering sequences. At times however, I could be dealing with up to 10 layers composited together. At that time, I'll render the clip layers that I know are where I want them to be into a single file. I'll then bring that in and move the original layers off. Those 10 layers just became maybe three or four, and quicker rendering at the end.

I'll definitely explore that idea further! 10 layer composites wow! Ok, I'm still in the four to five layer range at this point. Something else to get into. There's really no end to what you can do I think!!!

Well, I don't really go into this area (writing poetry) - just hire someone to do it for me, or find someone that just wants exposure.

LOL that would be a great idea for me as well. I'm no poet and I know it!

Samurai warriors,
As they clash in the moonlight
Hit those buttons fast

and

Late noble warriors
Or create a new fighter
Both kill gracefully

and

View nature's beauty
Under the cherry blossoms
I slew many men

and one of my favorites from here

Hear the techno beat
Clashing blades ring through the night
Samurai season

These are cool - the cherry blossom one reminds me of The Last Samuari - great flick!!!...I'd love to discuss with you another day how you handle issues of public domain. That is so complicated it's nutz!!!

MJ :asian:

 

[mj-hi-yah]

Hi RC,

The viewing went fantastically!!!artyon: I got lots of big laughs and everyone learned a lot too! It was so rewarding to see them all delight in seeing themselves. It was great! What a high!!!! One of my training partners owns his own advertising agency (in the business for like 25 years) and they make commercials. His comments meant the most to me. He loved the editing and told me I could have a career as an editor!

Thank you so much for your help and time! The DVD worked out great! It looks like I'll be burning a few more copies. It looked really clear on the tv. The colors and everything! A big e- to you for all of your help and advice on this. Oh yeah, and the e-drinks are on me :cheers: !!!

Sincere thanks,
MJ :asian: