Drugs and thievery are bad... m'kaaay?

[Grenadier]

Let's see now, marijuana, PCP, and a stolen firearm, while waving the gun around in public and refusing to listen to a police order.

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20070710_85_ROUNDS__ONE_BODY.html


I'm still rather surprised at some of the local folks' responses to the situation:

"This is an abuse of power," said neighbor Maurice Calhoun. "The cops could have killed a bystander."

"You're talking about someone who went to work, had a family," said Katie Bennett, a pregnant neighbor. "This wasn't about taking him down. It was about killing him."

"Latoya Thomas said she and two other nurses wanted to give Miller CPR but were denied access to him.
"This was uncalled for," she said of the shooting. "They killed this man for no reason."

If Miller had been Caucasian, "police would have negotiated with him," said neighbor Bahiyah Aldin.

 

[MJS]

Sad but true, that the race card always has to be thrown. I wasn't there, and I'm sure the people who are commenting in that article, were not privy to every detail, despite what they claim.

The number of shots: Does seem a bit much. Again, I dont know all of the circumstances.

Shoot to disarm: If I had a dollar for every time someone said that, I'd be a multi millionare! When faced with a party with a gun, and the LEOs on here can correct me if I'm wrong, but all the cops that I talk to say that center mass is the target. People talk about the leg, arm, etc. but I'd like to see how they'd react in a similar situation. Easy to armchair QB but put your self in the cops shoes.

Nurse told not to give aid: This is a crime scene, and part of the LEOs job is to secure that scene. Even in the city where I work, if we have a suicide attempt or any other dangerous situation that requires both police and EMS, the cops must secure and make sure its safe, before EMS enters. There was a situation a few years back where I work. A party had a gun and was threatening to shoot themselves. EMS arrived first and went in. Needless to say, the person shot themselves. However, they could've easily taken out the EMS responders and then themselves.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

Sounds cut and dry to me. High person waving gun around (stolen gun at that) refuses to follow police commands etc. If I even thought that the muzzle was coming towards me Id be shooting. What would it take for these people? Does a cop have to be killed to make shooting a guy like that justifiable? "Shoot to wound" if I hear that BS anymore Im gonna flip, I thought that old sawhorse died years ago. I really like the line that said that a neighbor stated the stolen gun wasnt able to be fired. First SO WHAT? Second it shows the neighbor knew the guy was carrying an illegal gun and did nothing about it. Shows what types these "neighbors" are, so all their babble doesnt mean squat as far as Im concerned.

And you have to figure. 7 cops. Im guessing with Glocks that carry what 16-17 rounds? Lets say 16. thats 112 possible rounds. If we were shooting at another guy with a gun Id bet 7 of us could shoot all of those rounds a lot faster than we realize. Would one cop shooting 10-15 rounds really be any different than all 7? In a case like this, I think that if force was justified for one, it was justified for all. I dont think the numbers of officers matter.

 

[MA-Caver]

It is tragic but I do have to say that while police are in rights to defend themselves and others the number of rounds is excessive... considering the suspect didn't fire back.
I've known a family who's eldest boy was killed by police after a high-speed chase from a town back to his home. There were a dozen officers on the scene at his house arriving as he sat in his car waiting. His family stood on their porch watching and being ordered by officers to stay where they were. As the son got out of the car and started to walk around it, he was ordered numerous times to lay down on the ground with his hands out. He refused and then brandished a knife where upon the most of the officers fired upon him, killing him. I do not know the details of the number of rounds fired but family members said that the shooting went on for at least 30 seconds. It was probably more like 15 or even as little as 10. But they told me they saw officers shooting repeatedly, even after the suspect had fallen to the ground and the knife was blasted out of his hand.
The family has tried wrongful death suit against the two cities that had officers on the scene. I do not know if they were successful but I do know that the family moved out of the area and have since disappeared from (my) radar. Only one (his brother) remained to care for the family property/land.

This tragedy mirrors the incident in question. I am not trying to be critical of LEO's but I have to wonder (with many others) what is termed as excessive to the situation? Surely several rounds is enough to put a person down, even pumped up on PCP. I've seen first hand someone pumped up on the crap and yeah they're hyped to the extreme and are seemingly invincible but still...

Trying to understand here.

 

[Mr. E]

85 shots fired and it looks like 21 hit.

That somehow explains why there were so many shots fired. Not all of them hit.

It also explains why police don't try to 'shoot to disarm.' If they were aiming at the relatively large center mass and only got about one in four shots to connect, how possible would it be to hit a much smaller arm?

Johnson said Miller was high on "wet," marijuana laced with PCP.

Police spokesman Capt. Benjamin Naish denied the contention of some neighbors that Miller was shot after he fell.

"He had been shot and didn't fall right down on the ground. The fact was that he stood up and continued to be a threat and that is what led to more shots being fired."

I have no problem believing that someone on PCP could keep standing for a short while after being shot. Some of the stories I hear about guys on PCP make me wonder about the laws of physics. And the police kept shooting until he was down and clearly not a threat.

If you don't want to be shot, then when a police officer tells you to put the gun down you put the freaking gun down!

 

[bushidomartialarts]

Lots of reasons for that many shots fired.

As has been said, not all of them hit.

As has been said, he didn't fall down right away.

Many interviews of people involved in gun violence report not seeing the effects of a first bullet and reacting as if they had missed, even when the bullet hit.

Some cities (don't know about this one) have policies requiring multiple shots. I've heard (but not confirmed) that some even require an officer empty the magazine if he pulls the trigger even one time.

This seems perfectly legitimate.

 

[Carol]

Sad but true, that the race card always has to be thrown.

Its a shame that there is no indication of how many lives were saved...including lives of people that just happen to be people of color...because the police were able to take him out in time.

 

[MJS]

Its a shame that there is no indication of how many lives were saved...including lives of people that just happen to be people of color...because the police were able to take him out in time.

True. Its a shame that its so rare that you see things like that. I'm sure it'll only be a matter of time before people say, "Well, he was a good person. He was trying to make something of himself." Sorry, but someone thats trying to make something of themselves or is supposedly a good person, doesnt do what he did. The public will not see that though.

 

[Cirdan]

Person high on drugs waves a gun about and refuses to obey commands from the police. In this kind of situation there is no such thing as excessive force, as long as the gun remains in his hand. I haven`t read the whole story but my first thougt would be "Good job!"

 

[Grenadier]

85 shots fired and it looks like 21 hit.

That somehow explains why there were so many shots fired. Not all of them hit.

To be fair, they did say that they recovered 85 brass casings from the scene. Since it happened in Philly, it's certainly possible that some of those casings were from another event.