Dojo location etiquette

[Headhunter]

so saw this on Facebook today from a taekwondo guy I have added. Don't know him that well but met him once or twice. Not going to name names.

But he put up a post saying that a bjj school was opening in the same mall as him opposite him. He wasn't really complaining but just saying it's a new challenge but the interesting thing was the comments to his post.

People were saying stuff like oh how dare the landlord do this to him or saying that the bjj instructor is obviously a scum bag for moving in so close.


To me both of those are completely ridiculous. The landlord can rent or whatever to whoever he wants. Landlords want the money it's not his problem all that and second why is the instructor a scum bag? The guys looking for a location for his school, he found one and got a deal. To me it's not an issue at all just people going about their business. The comments to me stank of insecurity. Yeah I get it's not brilliant for business for another school to open near you but that's the way things go.

Anyone ever seen these attitudes before?

 

[Buka]

Oh, heck yes. Seen all kinds of attitudes in the martial world.

I imagine it would be difficult for a small school if another school of similar arts opened up right near it. Not anything wrong with that, just might be difficult. But I think TKD and BJJ are different enough that it shouldn't matter too much.

I know if I were looking to open a new school, I'd try to find some place that didn't have any other schools near it, just for the sake of financial survival at the beginning. But once I was up and running, I wouldn't really care what opened up near me. I know if somebody came in to watch both - they would pick mine. At least at first. I say that because I always let them train for a month for free - to see if it was something they really wanted to do.

 

[WaterGal]

I think he should check his lease to see if he negotiated a non-compete clause. If he did, his landlord has violated the lease terms and he can sue him. If he didn't, well, that was his oversight. I think it's kind of stupid of his landlord to put two different martial arts schools in the same center, because having two competing businesses in the same center means both have more likelihood of failing. I don't think that means that anyone's being a jerk here, just not necessarily very smart.

 

[JR 137]

People have those attitudes unfortunately. I don’t think it’s as prevalent as it used to be, but it’s still around.

This isn’t just the MA though. Not even close. Many small business industries have this attitude, but they know there’s really nothing they can do about it. I’ve heard some leases in strip-mall type places have a clause that they won’t lease space to an outright competitor. My brother in law owns a barbershop in a strip mall-like building; I’m pretty sure I remember him saying he’s got a clause that the landlord won’t lease to another barbershop on the same property. I’ll post otherwise if I’m wrong. I’ll see him tonight and try to remember to verify.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

The whole one-MA spot lease thing explains why in general I only see one in any particular strip mall...I always wondered that.

Whenever I hear a complaint like that, about any industry, I think of food and car dealerships. Those bunch up together, and rather than competing they help each others business (If I ever need a new car, I know I'm heading over there to talk to a couple different salesmen. If I want to eat and don't know what I want, I'll head to an area with a lot of restaurants, until someone sees something and says "I want that").

Obviously MA is different than food or cars, but that comparison always pops in my head.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

As for this particular case, TKD and BJJ are so different that I feel like it's almost a non-issue. If anything, they may improve each others business, if they decide to work together and promote cross training. The only issue IMO would be if one of them actively tries to poach the other's customers.

@Headhunter I know you said you don't know the guy all that well, but if it ever naturally comes up, or you feel like commenting on the post, it might be good to recommend to him to meet up with the BJJ owner and see if they can find a way to help each other.

 

[dvcochran]

If they were willing and able to work together and set schedules that did not conflict, they may get a fair amount of cross trainers. A win-win. I do not see a style conflict.

 

[Tames D]

Not that it makes any difference but he's not a TKD guy. He's a Kenpo guy.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

so saw this on Facebook today from a taekwondo guy I have added. Don't know him that well but met him once or twice. Not going to name names.

But he put up a post saying that a bjj school was opening in the same mall as him opposite him. He wasn't really complaining but just saying it's a new challenge but the interesting thing was the comments to his post.

People were saying stuff like oh how dare the landlord do this to him or saying that the bjj instructor is obviously a scum bag for moving in so close.


To me both of those are completely ridiculous. The landlord can rent or whatever to whoever he wants. Landlords want the money it's not his problem all that and second why is the instructor a scum bag? The guys looking for a location for his school, he found one and got a deal. To me it's not an issue at all just people going about their business. The comments to me stank of insecurity. Yeah I get it's not brilliant for business for another school to open near you but that's the way things go.

Anyone ever seen these attitudes before?

I know at least one instructor who won't let a student open a school within 50 miles of him, and another who got upset because a similar style opened up in his area of town. I could see someone getting anxious if another school opened in the same mall, even if it's a very different style. But yeah, that's some hyperbole to call them names for that. The mall owner wouldn't hesitate to allow two clothing stores in the same mall, and nobody would think twice about it, so why should he balk at two MA places. As for the BJJ guy, I'd probably visit with the other school to introduce myself before I put up my sign, hoping we could find a way to combine efforts and help each other out. But I wouldn't feel like I needed the other guy's permission to be there.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think he should check his lease to see if he negotiated a non-compete clause. If he did, his landlord has violated the lease terms and he can sue him. If he didn't, well, that was his oversight. I think it's kind of stupid of his landlord to put two different martial arts schools in the same center, because having two competing businesses in the same center means both have more likelihood of failing. I don't think that means that anyone's being a jerk here, just not necessarily very smart.

From the landlord's perspective, they put competing businesses in those places all the time (two shoe stores, two clothing stores, etc.), so he might not understand the extra strain this could cause for a new/struggling school.

 

[Flying Crane]

Ah, the problems of the business side of martial arts.

 

[JR 137]

From the landlord's perspective, they put competing businesses in those places all the time (two shoe stores, two clothing stores, etc.), so he might not understand the extra strain this could cause for a new/struggling school.

A lot of bigger businesses will have that clause - Target and Walmart, Home Depot and Lowe’s, etc. Circuit City even had the clause that they couldn’t lease to another electronics store like Best Buy for I think it was 10 years AFTER they vacated. No idea how that’s enforceable as they’re out of business, but someone somewhere was enforcing it because there were several that remained unoccupied for quite some time, and a local building owner was forced into honoring it. And I remember Circuit City wanting to move into a new development a long time ago but couldn’t because there was a Tweeter already in the plaza. They went in within a month of Tweeter closing. Yeah, I knew a guy who worked for Circuit City.

 

[Flying Crane]

A lot of bigger businesses will have that clause - Target and Walmart, Home Depot and Lowe’s, etc. Circuit City even had the clause that they couldn’t lease to another electronics store like Best Buy for I think it was 10 years AFTER they vacated. No idea how that’s enforceable as they’re out of business, but someone somewhere was enforcing it because there were several that remained unoccupied for quite some time, and a local building owner was forced into honoring it. And I remember Circuit City wanting to move into a new development a long time ago but couldn’t because there was a Tweeter already in the plaza. They went in within a month of Tweeter closing. Yeah, I knew a guy who worked for Circuit City.

It would be interesting to see how a judge would rule on the Circuit City clause, whether or not that is enforceable. It just seems entirely unfair and unreasonable on its face.

On the other hand, maybe that contributed to the demise of Circuit City. Maybe mall managers became reluctant to rent space to Circuit City, realizing they were going to make onerous demands.

 

[skribs]

I mean, I've seen multiple Starbucks across from each other on the same street corner before.

 

[MetalBoar]

I mean, I've seen multiple Starbucks across from each other on the same street corner before.

Not quite the same thing as Starbucks doesn't franchise so those are all owned and operated by Starbucks Coffee Company.

 

[Buka]

Man, I hate Starbucks. But I go there a dozen times a week.

 

[ShortBridge]

I regard Starbucks as the Seattle Embassy. I only go there when I'm on the road, just to check in. In Seattle, we favor independent coffee shops.

When I was looking for a lease for my school, I was shown a nice room RIGHT next door to another Kung Fu club. I just said "this isn't going to work for me." I wouldn't have felt right hanging up a sign next to theirs. But, we're not talking about a mall, so it's a bit different.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Man, I hate Starbucks. But I go there a dozen times a week.

So twice a day...but skip sundays?

 

[JR 137]

It would be interesting to see how a judge would rule on the Circuit City clause, whether or not that is enforceable. It just seems entirely unfair and unreasonable on its face.

On the other hand, maybe that contributed to the demise of Circuit City. Maybe mall managers became reluctant to rent space to Circuit City, realizing they were going to make onerous demands.

I don’t know the ins and outs of retail leases, but for a big box stand-alone store (not inside a traditional mall), it may be the norm. That doesn’t mean no one can lease the building for 10 years after they vacate it; it means the landlord can’t lease it to a direct competitor. So if I own a building I lease to Home Depot, there could very well be a clause that I can’t lease it to Lowe’s for a period after Home Depot vacates it. Anyone else but HD and the like.

 

[skribs]

Not quite the same thing as Starbucks doesn't franchise so those are all owned and operated by Starbucks Coffee Company.

Ok, a Chevron, a Shell, and an Arco on the same corner.