F
fist of fury
Guest
Yeah but like he said they sound spoiled and they might not want to work hard to acheive anything.
Yeah but like he said they sound spoiled and they might not want to work hard to acheive anything.
Klondike93
Master Black Belt
Just this past weekend, 3-23-02, I went to a tournament and I was talking to a instructor from out of town and he's telling me about his son's sparring ring. His son is fighting for first place when his hand grazes the other kids mouth. The kids dad jumps in the ring and grabs his son's lip, rubs it against his teeth causing it to bleed. He yells at the center referee, "look blood" and gets the instructors son DQ'd. Then has the nads to shake his hand and say "good fight son". well the instructor tells him flat out, "sorry way to win, but that's ok my son has enough first place trophies". That's one hell of a way to win a match 
:asian:
:asian:
And a piss-poor lesson to teach your kid. "Cheeting wins".
I feel sorry for the kid, having a scum dad like that.
I feel sorry for the kid, having a scum dad like that.
T
tigerstorm
Guest
I think we can all agree that the arts as a public display, have gone downhill. This meanign that when you go to a tournament and the entire gymnasium clears out because theres a 7th degree outside kicking the **** out some kids parent who had a bad attitude we may be going in the wrong direction. I think we can look in a few directions to put the blame on people. We can blame the kids of course they act badly, there spoiled the abuse the system for there own benefit. But what about those parents the ones that sit outside of class and tell all the other parents that they saw the point there son just scored sparring whether the judges did or not. Can we maybe bring them into the class once in awhile and let them judge show them how things are supposed to run and mayeb that will help? Or lastly on my main list what about the instructors. Im not Saying you me or any names but havent Instructors through the last 20 years made things more complicated by selling rank? I would think that the three evils put together results in us looking to our right and seeing a bad parent lloking left, bad instructo, and in front of us is that spoiled brat causing the direct problem. So Im askign which way to we turn to slap the sense back into the system?
Tigerstorm
Tigerstorm
K
Kirk
Guest
Was this an EPAK school Rob?
OP
OP
Rob_Broad
Guest
These guys are one of the American Kenpo factions out there. The biggest problem I see is the main instructor of the school was a 3rd degree black belt in WTF TKD before he started kenpo and still puts too much emphasis of that type of curriculum into his class. The instructor flubbed his black belt test in American Kenpo but wa given his rank to run the school. He honestly thinks he has earned the BB and is now working onhis 2nd degree material. If he thinks it that is easy to get a BB in American Kenpo then he is going to pass on that belief to his students.
Now everybody knows why I always say if it was easy we would call it Tae Kwon Do.
Man, reading this thread really pissed me off! The lack of respect from martial artists is a sore subject to me. I've have about 10 years of experience bouncing at bars, and I'll tell you that the lack of respect and manners is not just an MA problem. Every year I find more and more people feeling that they can act and do what ever they wish, without taking any responsibility from their actions. It annoys me even more from MA's. As a matter of fact, I've had quite a few physical confrontations with a few MA's that thought their bad attitudes also made them "bad". Unfortunantly for them, they only learned form their instructor, how to assault someone with their mouth.
The bottom line is, how can these children learn any manners or respect when their parents and MA instructor is an idiot!
Sorry for my bad attitude on this post. I usually don't do this.
The bottom line is, how can these children learn any manners or respect when their parents and MA instructor is an idiot!
Sorry for my bad attitude on this post. I usually don't do this.
V
VampyrSoul2000
Guest
Although I do not study this style, I would like to say that I do understand what is said here. I myself have seen this being a ref myself. But I saw it from other students and instructors not only the parents.
To me, that give the martail arts a bad reputation.
Okay, at the higher divisions, I might see that you want to win. But tournys are supposed to be a learning expierence for you. It should teach one what to work on in the next class, wether it be blocking, looking for openings, or even in forms, working on stances and correct hand movements.
Also meeting others and making friends. No if thats not what its about, then maybe I have been brought up wrong.
I know in the old days, it was different, but that was then...
Just my opinion.
To me, that give the martail arts a bad reputation.
Okay, at the higher divisions, I might see that you want to win. But tournys are supposed to be a learning expierence for you. It should teach one what to work on in the next class, wether it be blocking, looking for openings, or even in forms, working on stances and correct hand movements.
Also meeting others and making friends. No if thats not what its about, then maybe I have been brought up wrong.
I know in the old days, it was different, but that was then...
Just my opinion.
I blame the whole thing ultimately on bad parenting.
Parents these days seem to be too damn lazy to discipline their children. They expect schools and other activities like martial arts instruction to act like daycare centers.
I'm sorry, but I didn't get involved with martial arts to babysit other people's children...I have more than a handful with my own daughter, I ai'nt raising anyone else's brats. Public school teachers didn't start their career to be glorified babysitters.
:soapbox:
If you can't raise your children properly, give them to someone who can. There are many couples out there who can't have children. Give them a shot.
Every time I see a poorly behaved child, I want to hunt that parent down and...
Cthulhu
Parents these days seem to be too damn lazy to discipline their children. They expect schools and other activities like martial arts instruction to act like daycare centers.
I'm sorry, but I didn't get involved with martial arts to babysit other people's children...I have more than a handful with my own daughter, I ai'nt raising anyone else's brats. Public school teachers didn't start their career to be glorified babysitters.
:soapbox:
If you can't raise your children properly, give them to someone who can. There are many couples out there who can't have children. Give them a shot.
Every time I see a poorly behaved child, I want to hunt that parent down and...
Cthulhu
V
vincefuess
Guest
Oh man this topic just takes the skin right off of my hinder! It takes a special person to teach MA to children, cuz you have to be as much a politician as instructor. I can't do it. I won't do it.
Tell if you haven't seen this scenario: A parent enrolls their child in martial arts instruction, in the hope of teaching them obedience and discipline (training in which the parents themselves have already abandoned all hope of doing themselves). The first time the little beast from hell gets disciplined, the big beast from hell springs from her perch on the sulphurous rock to defend him! "I want him to learn discipline- BUT NOT THE HARD WAY!!!" Duh?
I think the child learns volumes when he/she sees mom or dad get put in their place in a firm but correct manner, as well. This method does not lead to huge enrollment figures, however. I know folks who are GREAT childrens instructors, and are very successful (cuz let's face it- there's gold in them thar pockets)- but these folk are much more than instructors- they are "parent diplomats". Some people are just good politicians and conflict mediators, which is apparently a requirement when saddlebreaking a herd of dojo darlings.
I have also seen THE OTHER side of the coin, too- wherein an overzealous parent browbeats and punishes their kid for a less than perfect performance, tearing down the self-esteem that so much work went into building- but that's a whole different topic...
I have been mauled by my share of mama bears, and returned my share of swats. Luckily, I don't make my living teaching the arts, so I do not have to be a diplomat (this is one of many things I give thanks for on Sunday). Like my dad always said- "These kids these days are just too damned big for their britches!" Well, that was likely true, but now we have THOSE KIDS children to deal with. He had it easy.
Tell if you haven't seen this scenario: A parent enrolls their child in martial arts instruction, in the hope of teaching them obedience and discipline (training in which the parents themselves have already abandoned all hope of doing themselves). The first time the little beast from hell gets disciplined, the big beast from hell springs from her perch on the sulphurous rock to defend him! "I want him to learn discipline- BUT NOT THE HARD WAY!!!" Duh?
I think the child learns volumes when he/she sees mom or dad get put in their place in a firm but correct manner, as well. This method does not lead to huge enrollment figures, however. I know folks who are GREAT childrens instructors, and are very successful (cuz let's face it- there's gold in them thar pockets)- but these folk are much more than instructors- they are "parent diplomats". Some people are just good politicians and conflict mediators, which is apparently a requirement when saddlebreaking a herd of dojo darlings.
I have also seen THE OTHER side of the coin, too- wherein an overzealous parent browbeats and punishes their kid for a less than perfect performance, tearing down the self-esteem that so much work went into building- but that's a whole different topic...
I have been mauled by my share of mama bears, and returned my share of swats. Luckily, I don't make my living teaching the arts, so I do not have to be a diplomat (this is one of many things I give thanks for on Sunday). Like my dad always said- "These kids these days are just too damned big for their britches!" Well, that was likely true, but now we have THOSE KIDS children to deal with. He had it easy.
K
Kirk
Guest
"parent diplomats" I like that term.
Klondike93
Master Black Belt
It's usually the parents sticking the nose in where it doesn't belong. They always know more than the instructor anyways.
Curious, are parents allowed to spectate at your schools and if so, what happens if they open their mouth and start to make sugesstions on how stuff is done? Everyone please answer, it's not directed to any one person.
:asian:
Curious, are parents allowed to spectate at your schools and if so, what happens if they open their mouth and start to make sugesstions on how stuff is done? Everyone please answer, it's not directed to any one person.
:asian:
.....they are the ones yelling out, or talking out loud during class.
Talking to each other is bad enough, but then talking to their child while they are on the floor, really takes away the good experience the children are supposed to have.
The child becomes confused as to who they are supposed to listen to, misses most of the class, does not hear specific instructions on what they should be doing, possibly getting hurt because of distractions like these.
Watch out for your children for sure, I think all parents should, but give them encouragement before and after class.
Do not take away their, or any other students, experience by causing a disturbance.
The instructors have a hard enough time as it is. Not everyone can, or will teach children. Those who can, and do so, usually want to do their best. If they are doing a good job, 'thank them', if they are not, arrange an appointment with them to see how things can get better.
:soapbox:
Talking to each other is bad enough, but then talking to their child while they are on the floor, really takes away the good experience the children are supposed to have.
The child becomes confused as to who they are supposed to listen to, misses most of the class, does not hear specific instructions on what they should be doing, possibly getting hurt because of distractions like these.
Watch out for your children for sure, I think all parents should, but give them encouragement before and after class.
Do not take away their, or any other students, experience by causing a disturbance.
The instructors have a hard enough time as it is. Not everyone can, or will teach children. Those who can, and do so, usually want to do their best. If they are doing a good job, 'thank them', if they are not, arrange an appointment with them to see how things can get better.
:soapbox:
Klondike93
Master Black Belt
They want you to babysit their kid, but they also want to dictate what you teach them and how to do it!
:asian:
:asian:
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vincefuess
Guest
A couple of friends of mine who run a Kenpo school specialize in kids- and they have classes broken down into different groups (not just age and rank). Some of the classes are little more than high energy daycare, while some are very high level martial arts classes. The kids have to qualify to be in the "stars" program, which means they are expected to set an example both in performance and behavior. Kids/ parents who are problems pretty much stay in the high energy daycare program- where not much is expected except that they pay tuition (pretty good tuition). Naturally, the Stars program costs more still. On holidays (like New Years Eve), they have "ninja camp" where parents pay $30.00 a head for their children to spend the night at the school- they eat pizza, watch movies and play games. Talk about making some moolah!!
If you know the game, children in martial arts can be a gold mine- AND you can work it to where the ones that ARE teachable will learn. The key to the lock is having instructors that love kids, and that the kids love- it takes a special person, I don't think it is something that can be learned (I know I have never been able to do it). A person with "the knack" can learn to be good with kids, but someone who just doesn't like working with kids will never get it. I love kids, but I don't like teaching them.
If you know the game, children in martial arts can be a gold mine- AND you can work it to where the ones that ARE teachable will learn. The key to the lock is having instructors that love kids, and that the kids love- it takes a special person, I don't think it is something that can be learned (I know I have never been able to do it). A person with "the knack" can learn to be good with kids, but someone who just doesn't like working with kids will never get it. I love kids, but I don't like teaching them.
A
alan libby
Guest
oh times have changed - yes they have BUT - we all have a part in times . I have been teaching children for a while and remember the day when the student was instructed to do - it was done. when TIGER STRIKE was coming up through the ranks the command was the word - And the parents of the times were there viewing the classes never said anything - in that times students were the students NOT the parent.
things started to change when school teachers started to loose the discipline advanatge. { yes the wack across the knuckles for leaving the blockplane blade down } sorry my flashback- no that did not hurt but when i got home that did.
anyways the problem is MONEY - and many want to be the students friend in fear of loosing the $$$$ - well if the money is so inportant maybe the ones that need it should go get a job.
to me the martial way is not a cheap tool to insill the partent lackings. or a replacement for lack of time to the child.
in our kwoon we get the parents involved. and the has worked in a better understanding of the roll of the stuudent and the parents placec in the kwoon ect,ect
so what do we do GO TO THE OLD DAY OF TEACHING
WELL maybe not cannot afford the lawsuits . lol
things started to change when school teachers started to loose the discipline advanatge. { yes the wack across the knuckles for leaving the blockplane blade down } sorry my flashback- no that did not hurt but when i got home that did.
anyways the problem is MONEY - and many want to be the students friend in fear of loosing the $$$$ - well if the money is so inportant maybe the ones that need it should go get a job.
to me the martial way is not a cheap tool to insill the partent lackings. or a replacement for lack of time to the child.
in our kwoon we get the parents involved. and the has worked in a better understanding of the roll of the stuudent and the parents placec in the kwoon ect,ect
so what do we do GO TO THE OLD DAY OF TEACHING
WELL maybe not cannot afford the lawsuits . lol
The Dojo Darling may be the reason I don't have a big cdrens class. In fact most of the time the kids work out with the adults. Yes if have enough kids we will start a kids class again (but not for a while I think).
I like , want, and demand disipline from the kids. If they want to runaround and raise hell I can have them run the whole time their there. Even kids get tired of wind sprints every nght and either leave or finenaly ask when they are going to learn something. At which time they get told " as soon as you behave like you should in class and prove to me you are ready to learn".
The parents Well like I've said befor I have a verry small school It's MY (and My sons) place to work out Everyone else is a member of a club that I can disband any time I want to. If a parent dose not like what I teach or how There is a TKD school 2 miles away and another school 5 miles away that is run by another "grandmaster"( he bought and paid for the crtificate)
all I ask is that they don't let the door hit them in the *** as they leave( its made of glass I don't want to replace it.
Shadow
I like , want, and demand disipline from the kids. If they want to runaround and raise hell I can have them run the whole time their there. Even kids get tired of wind sprints every nght and either leave or finenaly ask when they are going to learn something. At which time they get told " as soon as you behave like you should in class and prove to me you are ready to learn".
The parents Well like I've said befor I have a verry small school It's MY (and My sons) place to work out Everyone else is a member of a club that I can disband any time I want to. If a parent dose not like what I teach or how There is a TKD school 2 miles away and another school 5 miles away that is run by another "grandmaster"( he bought and paid for the crtificate)
all I ask is that they don't let the door hit them in the *** as they leave( its made of glass I don't want to replace it.
Shadow
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Nevlyn
Guest
Maybe what you should do is what some football clubs in Australia is doing...
The parents have to sign a contract that they will not interfear with coaching/ teaching of the childrens sport..
If they (the parents) then break the contract then they are banned from all sporting matches/clubs or they cop a fine..
All in all parents should learn its ok to watch and take pride in watching their children achieve their goals but not to interfear in the teaching of martial arts or any other sport...
The parents have to sign a contract that they will not interfear with coaching/ teaching of the childrens sport..
If they (the parents) then break the contract then they are banned from all sporting matches/clubs or they cop a fine..
All in all parents should learn its ok to watch and take pride in watching their children achieve their goals but not to interfear in the teaching of martial arts or any other sport...
Klondike93
Master Black Belt
Hey, there's an idea, a contract that has in big red letters:
"I WILL KEEP MY MOUTH SHUT WHILE MY SON/DAUGHTER IS
TRAINING IN THE KARATE SCHOOL"
Yeah..........
:asian:
"I WILL KEEP MY MOUTH SHUT WHILE MY SON/DAUGHTER IS
TRAINING IN THE KARATE SCHOOL"
Yeah..........
:asian:
N
Nevlyn
Guest
Just the look on the parents face when produced with that kind of contract...
Behave or get out and take the brat with you...
Behave or get out and take the brat with you...
