Doing Si Lum Tao fast

[Ric Flair]

hey guys, is there a benificial purpose in doing certain parts or even all of SLT form fast sometimes???

I know you are meant to do it slow in the beginning but, i notice in class at the end when Sifu gets everyone to do the forms, he has us do it fast. If we slow down he is not impressed. He wants everyone in sync with each other. Why does he want all of us to start on the same time and end on the same time? I sometimes do it slower than the rest of the students cuz i'm still trying to get the technique right.

Sifu told me something like this the other day "For an actor, the first thing he needs to do is to remember his script line by line, word by word. Once this is accomplished, it should all come naturally with emotional content and delivery."

= WHAT?!?!?!

 

[Flying Crane]

The first segement of the form should be done slowly as this is the buildup of power. The second two sections should be done relaxed and fluid, but with a more explosive power, which would probably result in faster as well.

 

[ed-swckf]

hey guys, is there a benificial purpose in doing certain parts or even all of SLT form fast sometimes???

I know you are meant to do it slow in the beginning but, i notice in class at the end when Sifu gets everyone to do the forms, he has us do it fast. If we slow down he is not impressed. He wants everyone in sync with each other. Why does he want all of us to start on the same time and end on the same time? I sometimes do it slower than the rest of the students cuz i'm still trying to get the technique right.

Sifu told me something like this the other day "For an actor, the first thing he needs to do is to remember his script line by line, word by word. Once this is accomplished, it should all come naturally with emotional content and delivery."

= WHAT?!?!?!

Basically what i take him to be saying is he could have you in class doing 1/2 hour of just displaying the form really slow or he could have you doing the movements at a quicker pace so you have them to take away and work slowly in your own time. This frees up class time for a more in depth look at the techniques of the form in application. An actor generally learns their lines in their own time, once you have your form i would suggest doing it slow in your own time to build up leg strength and relaxation, of course i would also hope your sifu does the form slow as a class once in a while just to make sure everyone is understanding that element of it.

 

[bcbernam777]

hey guys, is there a benificial purpose in doing certain parts or even all of SLT form fast sometimes?

Do you want the short or long answer??

Short: No, never, ever ever.

Long: Here is the reality of the Sui Lum Tao, some people do it quickly because they think that they are building speed into their techniques, this is not the main purpose of Sui Lum Tao, first you need to develop the root, which can only be developed if the form is performed in a slow and careful way as it is not the technique you are developing, the hands are only positions, the true power in Wing Chun is developed through the proper development of the "Root" i.e the stance, and I am not simply talking about balance here, This is the specific purpose of the first section of the form, the second section and the third, lays down the fundamental ideas and concepts for the Chum Kuio and the Bui Jee, so they are performed still at a medium pace not as slow as the first, but not rushed through, you must feel the use of the Kim in the stance through each hand as this is the only way you are going to develop well. In terms of rushing through I have this to say, when learnig the SLT you will begin to understand that the structure of Wing Chun revolves around prooper body alighnment and proper relaxation, if you speed through the form like a freight train, you are never going to develop this relaxation and you are never going to buiild the necessary neuro pathways, (wehich are vtally important in Wing Chun).

I know you are meant to do it slow in the beginning but, i notice in class at the end when Sifu gets everyone to do the forms, he has us do it fast. If we slow down he is not impressed. He wants everyone in sync with each other. Why does he want all of us to start on the same time and end on the same time? I sometimes do it slower than the rest of the students cuz i'm still trying to get the technique right. ?

No intended disrespect to your Sifu, but i am not impressed with his ideas in relation to the Sui Lum Tao.

Now we hit a snag you are under his treaching (i hasten to say unfortuanatly) therefore you need to respect what he is saying, and do what he is saying, so do it, then when you get home perform the Sui Lum Tao slowley and carefully. Dont focus on the technique, that is nto the most important aspect of the SLT, focus instead on the stance and develooping the "root"

Sifu told me something like this the other day "For an actor, the first thing he needs to do is to remember his script line by line, word by word. Once this is accomplished, it should all come naturally with emotional content and delivery."

= WHAT?!?!?!

Listen I just split up with my wife 2 days ago so I am in the mood to be brutally honest, what a bunch of horses$$t, I believe he got that from Bruce Le's "Bruce Lee Strikes Back from the Grave"

Actually you ask any good actor and thats not the first thing they do, the first thing is they get a general sense of who that chariachter is and work on becoming that charichter. And if we want to use cheesy theatrical euphamism's then heres one for you. To truely learn the Sui Lum Tao you have to become the Sui Lum Tao, you need to walk it, breath it, you have to get "in charichter". In short that is bullsh$$ese for you need to be totally an utterly absorbed by the Sui Lum Tao. Forget about the lines, focus on the energy, the rooting and grounding. In Wing Chun the four areas of development in priority are 1) Energy 2) concpet 3) Structure 4) hands, if you follow this line of reasoning in your development it will hold you in good stead.

I dont kinow your Sifu, and I dont particulary want to know (sorry I know he is your Sifu and everything but it has to be said),I know from your post and his comments where his error lies, and the mistakes in his understanding of Wing Chun is, he has literally taken the four areas of development and swaped them back to front. Keep this one thought in Mind "Wing Chun is a conceptual based system, not a technique based one"

 

[Ric Flair]

Do you want the short or long answer??

Short: No, never, ever ever.

Long: Here is the reality of the Sui Lum Tao, some people do it quickly because they think that they are building speed into their techniques, this is not the main purpose of Sui Lum Tao, first you need to develop the root, which can only be developed if the form is performed in a slow and careful way as it is not the technique you are developing, the hands are only positions, the true power in Wing Chun is developed through the proper development of the "Root" i.e the stance, and I am not simply talking about balance here, This is the specific purpose of the first section of the form, the second section and the third, lays down the fundamental ideas and concepts for the Chum Kuio and the Bui Jee, so they are performed still at a medium pace not as slow as the first, but not rushed through, you must feel the use of the Kim in the stance through each hand as this is the only way you are going to develop well. In terms of rushing through I have this to say, when learnig the SLT you will begin to understand that the structure of Wing Chun revolves around prooper body alighnment and proper relaxation, if you speed through the form like a freight train, you are never going to develop this relaxation and you are never going to buiild the necessary neuro pathways, (wehich are vtally important in Wing Chun).



No intended disrespect to your Sifu, but i am not impressed with his ideas in relation to the Sui Lum Tao.

Now we hit a snag you are under his treaching (i hasten to say unfortuanatly) therefore you need to respect what he is saying, and do what he is saying, so do it, then when you get home perform the Sui Lum Tao slowley and carefully. Dont focus on the technique, that is nto the most important aspect of the SLT, focus instead on the stance and develooping the "root"



Listen I just split up with my wife 2 days ago so I am in the mood to be brutally honest, what a bunch of horses$$t, I believe he got that from Bruce Le's "Bruce Lee Strikes Back from the Grave"

Actually you ask any good actor and thats not the first thing they do, the first thing is they get a general sense of who that chariachter is and work on becoming that charichter. And if we want to use cheesy theatrical euphamism's then heres one for you. To truely learn the Sui Lum Tao you have to become the Sui Lum Tao, you need to walk it, breath it, you have to get "in charichter". In short that is bullsh$$ese for you need to be totally an utterly absorbed by the Sui Lum Tao. Forget about the lines, focus on the energy, the rooting and grounding. In Wing Chun the four areas of development in priority are 1) Energy 2) concpet 3) Structure 4) hands, if you follow this line of reasoning in your development it will hold you in good stead.

I dont kinow your Sifu, and I dont particulary want to know (sorry I know he is your Sifu and everything but it has to be said),I know from your post and his comments where his error lies, and the mistakes in his understanding of Wing Chun is, he has literally taken the four areas of development and swaped them back to front. Keep this one thought in Mind "Wing Chun is a conceptual based system, not a technique based one"

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I respect what you have to say and will consider your advice.

Also though, my Sifu mentioned something about "pretending there is a person or shadow in front of you really attacking you while you do Si Lum Tao". He said this will force you to put "emotional content" into your form and not worry too much on the technical aspects. I guess this is what he meant by speeding it up a bit in relations to a real life situation mentality. I'm sure he didn't mean try to be Superman though lol.

My Sifu also never denied the fact you also need to do Si Lum Tao slow. he never once said "from now on never do SLT slow! Fast is the only way". My Sifu never said that or implied that, in fact Sifu has often stated that there is not always one set written in stone rule for the way things are to be done.

I don't know, i figure the beginning of class i'll do Sil Lum tao more slow paced, and at the end of class flow with the class.

I was just checking with you guys.
To be honest though, i feel i hesitate and slow myself down through worrying if what i'm doing is right or not. I'd repeat the same strike from a form more times than its needed sometimes just to make sure my body alignment is correct and i don't hear those awful joint cracks. etc etc.

 

[samurai69]

I was taught slow for blocks - fast for attacks

 

[Ric Flair]

I have that feeling from deep within me that tells me not to rush through SLT too fast for the most part.

Out of the 7 days of the week, i attend class 2-3 times a week. Work/school/family doesn't allow me to do it 6 days a week for now.

When I'm away from my WC class i will do my form at least once a day. I figure this is when i'll do it slower paced to correct myself in the mirror at home and such.

In class where there might not be a mirror, i'll start off class with SLT slow and try to feel for corrections without the use of a mirror. At the end of class is when people do their SLT forms a bit quicker, i'll do my form slightly quicker myself just to keep up. I will not do it like i am on Speed pills or what not, just a bit quicker at the end of classes to match the flow of the class.

FOr the most part though, I'll maintain the principle of doing SLT slow to improve and correct my Wing Chun.

 

[ed-swckf]

I was taught slow for blocks - fast for attacks

They are essentially the same thing but why would one need to be slow and the other fast?

 

[Hung Fa Moose]

I'm echoing ed-swckf's thoughts a bit.

If Wing Chun is designed to allow for simultaneous offense and defense in the trapping range, why do attacks need to be faster than blocks. This kind of mind set seems to be, well, odd. This makes several assumptions about you and your attacker. Fisrt is that you're either slower than your attacker, or faster. Second is the converse, which ever you are (faster/slower), your attacker is the opposite. In the case above, your essentially saying that your faster than your attacker, that you can beat him to the punch, so why increase your defensive speed. On the other hand, if the blocks become faster, you say that you're slower than your attacker and that you are on the defensive, probably more than you should be.
Siu Nim Tau, as was mentioned before in the thread, is designed for establishing your root/base. I was taught that SNT is designed for establishing your identity in space, the limits of your limbs without distorting your Centerline, while allowing for both arms to be able to back each other up for the most part without needing to turn your body. It seems that in the above example, the Centerline is distorted such that the practitioner would be standing with a twisted body rather than with the shoulders squared up as they typically are in the trapping range, not allowing for the arms to be able to back each other up simultaneously. If the shoulders are square, the arms then can move at the same or similar speeds, no? (dominant side argument aside for now.)

Your Sifu may have also had you speed up the form because he wanted to move on the that particular class to other things that day. I'd say talk to your Sifu about it and get his input. After all, he is your teacher, not us here. Also, if you're having trouble with the form right now (getting the moves/sequence), you may want to ask one of your sihing to help you for a bit after class on occasion.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Domino]

Sometimes slow, sometimes a little more but do it how you feel, also what Hung Fa said, I just asked sifu one day and he lets us do it how we feel to. The speed is for class progression.

 

[WC_lun]

Slow to learn precision so your structures are correct. Fast to see what has been learned into your body memory and what has not, so you or rather your instructor knows what his students need to work on specofocally.

 

[mook jong man]

It is performed slowly so that you can put your mind into each and every movement with the utmost concentration , if you can still maintain this focus while doing it fast , then theoretically you could perform it fast. But most people cannot do this hence the reason for it being performed slowly.

 

[Eric_H]

The form can be done many ways depending on your training focus, already touched on in this thread are:

• Root
• Chi/Relaxation
• Precision
• Mental stillness

And they are best practiced slow.

You can also practice SNT with focus on Faat Jing (whipped power) that one will move quicker out of necessity.