Would your Sifu totally freak if you wanted to train with some guys from a different WC/WT/VT branch? Or would he encourage you to look around and gain a broader experience? If you were planning a trip and wanted to visit some different schools while you were away, how would your Sifu respond?
Does your WC Sifu Freak-out...
- Thread starter geezer
- Start date
KamonGuy2
Master of Arts
I guess it is totally dependent on who your Sifu is and who he has upset in the past!!
Generally my Sifu encourages going to other wing chun seminars etc, although I am sure he would get upset if I started training somewhere else more than I did under him!!
My students are always welcome at other dojos although I keep an eye on it in case they choose a bad school or one where students are bullied etc
I personally love going to seminas taught by other WC guys. James Sinclair regulalry holds open seminars, as well as Alan Gibson/Alan Orr.
It is good to understand different points of view about wing chun and then decide what works for you
OP
- Thread Starter
- #4
Well that's pretty much how I see it too. The reason I posed this question is because of what happened to a training partner of mine. He went to NYC on an extended trip, and while he was there he visited another WC school. He politely identified himself and his lineage, and arranged to train with them for a couple of weeks as a guest student. He really enjoyed the experience and told his Sifu about it when he returned home. The Sifu went ballistic. Apparently he considered this an affront to his prestige. What a bunch of BS. What do you think?
almost a ghost
Blue Belt
I've experienced the "wrath" (aka immaturity and ego) of my instructor's former sifu.
My instructor and a few of his KF brothers decided to leave this particular org. They, and myself, found a master that was willing to train us and was under the same grand master of the former sifu (who is also a master).
When the former sifu found out he cried and complained to the GM that this other master stole "his students" even though publicly stated they no longer wished to be associated with him. Fortunately nothing came of his bitching.
About two years later my instructor's friend has the new master fly in for a seminar. Well, the spies were out and students of the old sifu called him and told him what we were up to (we were spotted at Applebee's! LOL). The old sifu calls the new master that night and starts grilling him for information but gets far less than what his spies told him, even goes as far as to drive up 4hrs the next day and wait outside our friend's house where we were having the seminar to confront him.
During some private training a few months after that with the new master I learned that the old sifu called the GM again and complained about "stealing his students".
Bottom line was that the old sifu was pissed because he felt like that particular region was "his territory" and that any money being spent on WC that wasn't going to him was the same thing as stealing from him.
My instructor and a few of his KF brothers decided to leave this particular org. They, and myself, found a master that was willing to train us and was under the same grand master of the former sifu (who is also a master).
When the former sifu found out he cried and complained to the GM that this other master stole "his students" even though publicly stated they no longer wished to be associated with him. Fortunately nothing came of his bitching.
About two years later my instructor's friend has the new master fly in for a seminar. Well, the spies were out and students of the old sifu called him and told him what we were up to (we were spotted at Applebee's! LOL). The old sifu calls the new master that night and starts grilling him for information but gets far less than what his spies told him, even goes as far as to drive up 4hrs the next day and wait outside our friend's house where we were having the seminar to confront him.
During some private training a few months after that with the new master I learned that the old sifu called the GM again and complained about "stealing his students".
Bottom line was that the old sifu was pissed because he felt like that particular region was "his territory" and that any money being spent on WC that wasn't going to him was the same thing as stealing from him.
BFL
Orange Belt
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My Sifu has encouraged me many times in the past to work out with other 'Chunners. At the time of my training under him I was experiencing some paralysis on my right side and found Chi Sao and other drills difficult to practice pain free and consistantly when I was there. I've sinced moved away and my condition has improved dramatically for many reasons and he has actually encouraged me to go other places, be humble and respectful, state my reasons honostly and train, train, train..learn, grow etc., main point for me was to improve and for my W.C. to grow. Even when I was living near him he let me know that going elsewhere was cool with him, he was always layed back and mellow, realizing that trying to control others, would eventually push them away. I am sure he would have been hurt had I left his tutelage to train full time elsewhere but his Kung Fu was awesome and he was so cool and such a good friend, why would I? For this and many other reasons, I will train with other Sifu's and people, but he shall always my (final) SiFu and great friend.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #7
Sounds a lot like the attitude my friend was dealing with. The really stupid thing is that the generous and open-minded Sifus usually are more successful at getting and retaining students. There are some 300 million people in the US. Our competition isn't the WC guy on the other side of town, or the BJJ guy, it's every other recreational activity that competes for our time and money. A successful sifu understands this and won't be so insecure and jealous. And, as a result, training in his/her school will be a lot more enjoyable and productive.
KamonGuy2
Master of Arts
I mean bear in mind that there are politics in wing chun and people have fallen out with each other in the past.
ie If a William Cheung student had gone and trained under Bozteppi after their skirmish then I could understand a bit of tension there
Yet a student shouldn't really be blamed for being curious and wanting to explore
My students are welcome to go out and train under different schools - they have free will!
No matter how good I get, there will always be better instructors out there and that is the whole point of training for ourselves
ie If a William Cheung student had gone and trained under Bozteppi after their skirmish then I could understand a bit of tension there
Yet a student shouldn't really be blamed for being curious and wanting to explore
My students are welcome to go out and train under different schools - they have free will!
No matter how good I get, there will always be better instructors out there and that is the whole point of training for ourselves
Mic
White Belt
My Sifu has great respect for all arts not just Wing Chun and thinks that there is experance to found anywhere and even lets a master of Baltawlk teach in his at times that he is not teaching and lets his higher level students train in Baltawlk and is proud of this fact.so i would say he would not mind at all if i started training in another school or art i think he would just ask that anyone wishing to do so made sure they had the basics of our art, Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun, down first.
OP
Mic
White Belt
yes Balintawak, sorry i was sleepy when i wrote that post lol.
Hung Fa Yi can trace our history back to when the Manchu over through the Ming Dynasty and through those documents have an understanding of where we came from.We do not belive that Wing Chun was created by a woman(not saying women cant kick but) from what we know from our documentation.
Hung Fa yi is also different in that some of our stances are a little different in structure although a trained eye can see alot of the simularties. Our thoughts on Time, Space and Energy and so much else makes the art different. it would take way too long to describe all the differences but if any one would like a glance into the world of Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun go here and go to the Recommended Reading Especially under commen mis conceptions of wing chun to read of our history
http://www.cinciwingchun.com/home.html
Hung Fa Yi can trace our history back to when the Manchu over through the Ming Dynasty and through those documents have an understanding of where we came from.We do not belive that Wing Chun was created by a woman(not saying women cant kick but) from what we know from our documentation.
Hung Fa yi is also different in that some of our stances are a little different in structure although a trained eye can see alot of the simularties. Our thoughts on Time, Space and Energy and so much else makes the art different. it would take way too long to describe all the differences but if any one would like a glance into the world of Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun go here and go to the Recommended Reading Especially under commen mis conceptions of wing chun to read of our history
http://www.cinciwingchun.com/home.html
KamonGuy2
Master of Arts
Is Hung Fa Yi the one that benny Meng studies/teaches?
Mic
White Belt
yes Benny Meng is my master above my sifu and grandmaster Gee is above us all and lineage holder.
KamonGuy2
Master of Arts
Oh dear...
He doesn't have a very good reputation in London
He doesn't have a very good reputation in London
qwksilver61
Black Belt
I don't believe so,since we are many miles and many years apart since I last studied with my former Dei-si-Hing.Anyway the proof is in the pudding,how well were you taught,what did you retain,and are you a capable teacher?That is what you have to ask.Also is your mind flexible enough to handle change?Some of us have a tendency to resist change.While Wing Chun is Wing Chun,not all Wing Chun carries the same format as I'm finding out with Wing Tsun versus EBMAS Wing Tzun.Some of the core principles are the same but the approach is different.No,I do not think my former teacher would care,so long as I was practicing Wing Chun.
KamonGuy2
Master of Arts
British humour? You found some? Anyway, whilst I live in Britain, I am a citizen of the world....
Benny Meng was rumoured to have conned a load of people in the US by hosting a seminar to show people secret techniques etc. Thee people were shown three techniques which were basic moves (like palm strikes etc)
I think there was also an issue between Robert Chu and Benny Meng (not sure if its resolved)
Bodhisattva
Blue Belt
I think any time a kung fu teacher, or any MA teacher, tries to limit his students its obviously due to insecurity and ignorance.
One thing I always liked about Straight Blast Gym was their encouragement that their students train elsewhere.
You can only do that when you are teaching the "real stuff" or else you wouldn't be nearly secure enough to do it.
Mic
White Belt
well not every one is going to like everyone else.so far everything i have learned makes sense and is relevant in combat so that i know what im learning works.Its been my experience in life that anytime you have a different view, Idea or belief some one else will disagree and try to smack you down for it. Just because someone sees something different doesnt mean what they think is wrong or what you think is wrong sometimes they can both be right just go about things differently.
KamonGuy2
Master of Arts
Mic - can I ask - have you been in a combat situation (fight etc), because it is a very big statement to say that what you do 'works'.
It is very important in this day and age to be tested by other arts and schools, not for reassurance but to make your training interesting
I am very aware that no matter how good, or how much your art 'works' there is always someone out there who is better.
So we train for ourselves to make ourselves better, whether it be on a fitness level, an internal level or self defence level. If what you do makes you happy then that is a good thing, but be very careful to assume that what you do works
It is very important in this day and age to be tested by other arts and schools, not for reassurance but to make your training interesting
I am very aware that no matter how good, or how much your art 'works' there is always someone out there who is better.
So we train for ourselves to make ourselves better, whether it be on a fitness level, an internal level or self defence level. If what you do makes you happy then that is a good thing, but be very careful to assume that what you do works
