DOES YOUR ART TEACH TMA WEAPONS?

[Hot Lunch]

I play with the concept during wrestling.

Ah, yes. The chair shot.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Is weapons training a part of your art's curriculum? If so, which ones? Is it integrated into your empty hand training? Is it historically tied to your art or is it an add on feature?

Mainline NGA includes some weapons training. There’s some very rudimentary nunchaku work, as well as some “club” work - what appears to be some material from traditional weapons adapted to a short baton (what I have always called an MP baton - the old style police used to carry).

This material was most often held until after Shodan, and only formally tested at Nidan. Most never worked with it unless preparing for Nidan testing, or training someone who was doing so. It always felt to me like an add-on with limited value.

I took a different direction. I adapted some material from my limited FMA training, and integrated it into my curriculum. Then I added in a bit of very rudimentary staff work I picked up over the years, then some sword/bokken work. That latter wasn’t meant to be functional; rather, it was added for the challenge of it.

The weapons were introduced at each belt level between blue and black (I only had 6: yellow, blue, green, purple, brown, black). They were tied to the longer-form kata in my curriculum: Yellow was grappling, blue was strikes, green was single stick, purple was double stick, brown was staff, black was sword/bokken. Though I often started the kata much earlier in their training, and not necessarily in that order, as appropriate.

The idea (other than the sword portion) was to give very basic techniques, integrate with the principles of the empty-hand foundation, and let students explore as much or as little as interested them.

 

[isshinryuronin]

It was created by Kensho Tokumura, a student of Tatsuo Shimabuku. He went on to become a high dan in Gojuryu as well. In recent times, as I am informed, he has traveled around Okinawa collecting up weapons systems that might otherwise be forgotten, and he has created and continues to refine kata around each of them, and has created a ryu which he calls Tokushinryu. It is popular in Europe, Okinawa, and North America. In the US, Master Jeff Perkins leads the system. Our sensei is highly ranked in Tokushinryu, and several of our karateka in our dojo hold dan rank in Tokushinryu as well (as mentioned, I do not). Masters Tokumura, Anderson, and Perkins have been to our dojo to teach and promote.

So technically it is not affiliated with Isshinryu, but one of the organizations, WUIKA, has sort of informally embraced it.

There are a few Youtube videos with Master Tokumura demonstrating various kata. They may not be up-to-the-minute because he does continue to develop the kata and the system.

MSISSHINRYU.COM | Isshinkai/Tomonokai

I know Master Shimabuku did not consider himself a weapons master and would tell students wanting to delve further into kobudo to seek out weapons masters, but I wonder why Tokumura felt the need to develop a kobudo system when Matayoshi and Taira Shinken already had such in place.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I know Master Shimabuku did not consider himself a weapons master and would tell students wanting to delve further into kobudo to seek out weapons masters, but I wonder why Tokumura felt the need to develop a kobudo system when Matayoshi and Taira Shinken already had such in place.

I do not know. What I was told was that he felt he was doing the work of an archivist of sorts. Some of the weapons he teaches are not seen in most other weapons systems. I can't say that's the correct story; it is only what I have heard.

The weapons used are (to the best of my knowlege), Tichu, Tekko, Tonfa, Eku, Kama, Bo, Nunti Bo, Sai, Nunti Sai, Tinbe Rochin, Sansetsukon, Gusan (Sanchaku bo), and Bachi. I'm not familiar with most other weapons sytems, but I know I very seldom see eku (oar kata) for example, and I've never seen Tinbe Rochin or Bachi other than in Tokushinryu.

I like a few of the Tokushin weapons/katas very much, for example Moha Gama (kama) and Tekko. Tichu is cool. But I get confused trying to do some of the others which have an Isshinryu counterpart, such as bo. They're similar but different.

Personally, I have enough trouble with shishi bo. I don't need the full gamut of Tokushin weapons in my poor noggin.

 

[Badhabits]

The style I currently train in, other than Bo, unfortunately no. Really really want to learn how to use the oar/eku. Also what I know as the gig pole. Don't know the Okinawan name. As I'm often on the water these are two items that I actually have with me and use for their daily purposes, so would actually be real world practical weapons. Maybe one day.

 

[_Simon_]

We do have introduction to some weaponry but only from about Shodan. It's actually not traditional Japanese kobudo weaponry but is from CMA; Shodan level is a Xingyi short-stick form (sort of a han-bo), and higher grades I believe are long pole, sword, and sabre forms. As the founder of our style trained CMA as a compliment these are incorporated in our study as well. So it's interesting not doing traditional Japanese kobudo in karate! I've never really been a weapons guy, but I have definitely found benefit in training them.

 

[geezer]

Is weapons training a part of your art's curriculum? If so, which ones? Is it integrated into your empty hand training? Is it historically tied to your art or is it an add on feature?

Yes and no. The Wing Chun Association I used to represent embraced the traditional Wing Chun weapons, the "Eight Cutting Broadsword" or Bart Cham Dao and the "6 1/2 point long-pole" or Luk Dim Boon Kwun. I officially learned the pole set and drills, and about a third of the Bart Cham Dao set.

Both are useful in contributing to your strength and performance of the empty hand art, but not of much use in and of themselves in modern times. Especially since in my ten years with the first association and 16 years with a splinter group I don't know of anybody (as of last year) who the chief instructor taught the entire BCD set. And I never saw either weapon used in any kind of live or free-form training.

Nowadays, I really only train the Escrima weapons I learned, and although this may seem odd, I spend little time with knives and bladed weapons. I still train staff (5-8 ft. long) and single and double stick (20 to 28 inches long, of varying weights), palm-stick/fist load, side-handle baton (tonfa), and improvised weapons. I find that these integrate well with my empty hands work, are very practical, and a lot of fun.

As far as bladed work ...many feel that this is the core of FMA. Maybe so, but in my world, I find knives to be a poor choice for self defense, although a great way to maim and kill ...while possibly getting killed yourself at the same time. Also, in real-life use there's a lot of blood. I don't really like that. My dad was a surgeon and wanted his sons to follow in his footsteps. Didn't happen.

I even gave up hunting in my early twenties and ended up being an art teacher. Blood really isn't my favorite thing. Just now I'm getting over a bout of ischemic colitis. The cramps were bad enough, but finding the toilet full of blood was especially nasty! On the bright side, I lost weight.

 

[KenpoMaster805]

we do staff set and we do lng 7 kali and long 8 is knife in kenpo karate

 

[Rich Parsons]

Is weapons training a part of your art's curriculum? If so, which ones? Is it integrated into your empty hand training? Is it historically tied to your art or is it an add on feature?

I teach two Martial Arts styles. Both are Filipino.
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One is optimized for stick dueling.
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The other has stick, knife, dagger, shot and long blade. There is also staff, spear, and others including whips, also do not forget the improvise weapons' or weapons of opportunity.
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These are traditional for our systems yet not always considered traditional in the sense of Korea or Japanese.
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I play with the staff and the spear a little, a while ago. I mostly concentrate on the stick and blades and improvised. These are incorporated with the empty hand from day one.
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I say: "The attributes of the weapon will dictate the body mechanics."
An impact weapon and a chopping weapon will have very similar body mechanics. While thrusting and slicing will have different body mechanics.
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Body mechanics includes footwork, weight placement, and hand placement.
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Doing a technique with two weapons and then one weapon and then no weapons can be called "The Same", yet the subtleties of weight and range will change as well as where the primary and secondary hand placements are.
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One of the benefits of learning the FMA's is the grouping of techniques as being similar versus making sure that if the hand is moved 2.54 centimeters in one direction then it is a new technique with a totally different name. I get the precision of that process. Yet to me for general sell-defense the close enough in a window allows the student to learn and be close and as they learn more they can understand and fine tune and improve. They are just different methodologies for teaching. Both have pros and cons.
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Some ask, 'does this not mean the student has to relearn?"
Yes it does. It builds upon the memory path that already exists and allows one to build further for improvement, versus learning a completely new path.
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I did this with a TBI student who had late 60's early-mid 70's Karate/Judo and Muay Thai.
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He had complete memory before the accident. And learning was difficult as moving an item from short term to long term (Or more like Mid-term and then long-term) memory was difficult for him as it required building new pathways.
I worked his harder styles with him and then softened them slowly and added to what he already knew.
Yes there was a lot or repetition one both our parts.
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Yet when he did a move reflexively (outside of class) he was surprised, impressed and very happy.
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Sorry for the tangent
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I wish everyone good training.