Does God Hate Shrimp?

[Feisty Mouse]

I'm going to start another thread to ask you a couple of questions, Mark, since this might be ganking the thread here.

"Jewish Christians" were the early Christians who were raised Jewish, lived as Jews believing in Christ. "Gentile Christians" were the converts who were not Jewish, and caused a lot of hoo-ha in the very early Church.

Since Jesus was a Jew, and his disciples were as well, and he was teaching about, basically, "their" God (i.e. not describing a new God), there was a lot of argument over how to treat non-Jewish converts to this new branch of Judaism, basically. Again, we're talking very early here - not today, or 1,000 years ago. Should converts be circumsized? Should they keep kosher? Etc.

 

[JPR]

1.) The diet you are referring to was not to set apart a people but was to ensure that the Hebrew people were the healthiest and strongest people in the area.

Agree, that is why I said protect as well as set apart.

2.) Your correct Gentiles meaning Non-Jewish are not required to keep the Kosher diet.

Ah, I love common ground!

3.) Excuse me where did you come up with that the Torah was the presentation of HaShem's perfection?

Christian perspective. Old Testament establishes the law and the law shows God's plan and how mankind fails to live up to the standard.

4.) You need to go back and restudy the Torah there were more than one way for the atonement of sins. The was intentional and unintentional sin for both a person and Israel. Also there is more than one festival that deals with atonement.

No argument, I am aware of the sin offering and the guilt offering. I was referring to the once a year sacrifice, the Day of Atonement.

5.) Judgement? okay I have to ask is that the christian way of thinking on judgement or would you want the orginal text about what is the outcome of atonement it is not to cover but to wipe away completely. Once atoned you never have to worry about it again hence no guilt.

Well, my understanding is that there will be a day when I have to make an account before God of everything I have done in this life. God will then judge me. By myself, I will stand condemned of breaking God's laws (some small, some large) and therefore I will be impure and of my own actions not worthy to be with God. However, because of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus, those sins are wiped away completely.

6.) The priniciple of grace started back in genesis if you study the original Hebrew text and its translation you will see that HaShem showed us what grace is and how to live that way with others around us.

True, grace is woven throughout, I agree. Again Christian perspective is that grace is what the NT is all about.

7.) One has to understand what is meant by sin. The Christian way of seeing sin is different than what the Jewish mindset sees sin as.

Sin = disobedience to God's law / way of life.

8.) Of course we can study and debate the shedding of blood and a offering of a human body for sins for the so called sin offering. How the Torah tells us that blood is not neccessary for atonement of sin.

I am going by Exodus 30:10; "Once a year Aaron shall make atonement on its horns. This annual atonement must be made with the blood of the atoning sin offering for the generations to come. It is most holy to the Lord."

9.) There is no such animal as a Jewish Christian.

*grin* The original disciples were Jewish (both religion and race), they and many others believed that Jesus was / is the Messiah, therefore, my statement about Jewish Christians. I think the term more commonly used today is Messianic Jews. I suppose I could also say Hebrew Christians or Israeli (sp) Christians, but in the vernacular of the time, they were Jewish.

10.) I am not not going to tell you what is wrong with using this passage in Matthew unless you want me too and we can start another thread to discuss this issue.

Feel free to do so, I am always open to learning something I didn't know. My reference is simply to point out it isn't a matter of what food you eat that determines your standing in God's eyes, but it is all a matter of what you do, think, and say.

I also apologize to the crowd and moderators, as I fear I have derailed / hijacked / ganked a thread. I humbly ask your indulgence. *bow*

See what your shrimp did HHJH!

JPR

 

[heretic888]

Honestly most Christians have no working knowledge of Biblical Hebrew and often misquote Torah. I find it very funny they start whole movements based on misunderstandings of the Torah.

I doubt these were "misunderstandings" as much as they were conscious revisions.

Christianity uses a Greek transliteration of the Torah called the Septugaint. This is the version of the Torah quoted by both the Synoptics and the Pauline epistles. The New Testament authors seem completely ignorant of Jewish laws of the time, and apparently do not speak Hebrew.

It is widely accepted by most scholars that it differs significantly from the Hebrew text, and that many Hellenistic and Platonic philosophical concepts were projected into the Torah as a result. The most well-known of these is the transliteration of "virgin" from "young woman" in the original Hebrew in reference to the mother of the Messiah.

As one scholar put it, with the transliteration of YHVH as "I am that I am", scribes "Platonized the Lord himself".

Of course, to be fair, the Septugaint was a very widespread and popular transliteration of the Torah. It was by no means exclusive to the Christians (although the more nationalist Ebionites probably used the original Hebrew). The Seputagaint has its origins in Alexandria, along with much else of "Christian" thought.

Laterz.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

The Levitical diet was given in the Old Testament to protect and set the Hebrews apart from the nations around them. No scavenger type animal was to be eaten. (Just as an aside, how many of you eat buzzard? Shrimp is to ocean as buzzard is to land…)

Sorry, JPR. There is no clear correlation there. Not all crustaceans are scavengers. Some shrimp are predatory. Some species of crabs, like the red rock crab, browse on seaweed, which make it an herbivore.

I'd eat a buzzard, sure. Its probably protected, though.


The Old Testament was the statement of Gods perfection. All through the OT you find God setting the standard of perfection, and man falling short of the standard.

A point which I've always had a problem with, I confess.


Regards,


Steve

 

[DavidCC]

I had some river prawns (freshwater shrimp) in my aquarium for a while and they do have fins. Lots fo them, all along the back half of their torso.


but I still believe God does hate them haha because why else would he have made them taste so good!!!

 

[jfarnsworth]

Let's take this discussion over to Joe's Crab Shack and knock back a few crusatceans - whadyasay?

'Ya know, I was thinking about you and this very sentence last night. I was driving home from work when my 4 year old called to say he wanted to eat at the chinese place for dinner. I said Ok we will. Believe me when I tell you that I ate enough king crab legs, breaded shrimp, peeled shrimp, and frog legs for both of us. :uhyeah:

 

[BrandiJo]

um some religions still folow those laws about what foods to eat and not just jewish people

 

[kenpo tiger]

I don't have distain for the Torah - the people I have had quoting Old Testament lines to me are evangelical Protestants who generally take a single phrase out of context and then proceed to repeat it in the face of all opposing arguments.

I have yet to meet a Jewish person who does this, at least to me. I was not referring to anyone of the Jewish faith - I apologize if that was the impression.

I will vouch for Ms. Mouse!

And, I don't think that was an attack on you, Feisty. We're just hypersensitive at times because there are so few of us and there are those who'd love to see us disappear...

 

[kenpo tiger]

The Levitical diet was given in the Old Testament to protect and set the Hebrews apart from the nations around them. No scavenger type animal was to be eaten. (Just as an aside, how many of you eat buzzard? Shrimp is to ocean as buzzard is to land…) In the New Testament dietary restrictions were removed when the gospel was shared with the gentiles.

JPR

No catfish, either -- despite being a 'fish' and not a crustacean. [liked the buzzard analogy] You all who have aquaria certainly have one of those guys to keep it clean -- or a snail, which also falls into the same category. (don't tell my father-in-law who loves his escargot)

 

[raedyn]

um some religions still folow those laws about what foods to eat and not just jewish people

Practicing Muslims, for instance. They also have rules about what food they can & can't eat. And good for them. But the people who stand on street corners with God Hates Fags signs generally aren't those people. Mostly it's Christrian Fundamentalists who DO eat shellfish, wear clothes made of mixed fibres, etc. So they pick and choose which of the laws they'll enforce and which they won't. It just makes no sense.

If you choose to follow the teachings of your religion, I have respect for that up to the point where you try and enforce it on me. Don't eat pig meat if you find that indefensible. Fine by me. But I like bacon, thanks. Don't have gay sex if you don't want to. Fine by me. But I can do as I choose in that respect. It's not hurting you.

 

[jfarnsworth]

Well the big man may not like them but:

I'm still going to eat pig, shrimp, perch, catfish, lobster, crab, mussells, the dolphina, and whatever else I may like that I forgot on this list. I'm down to 2 bags of shrimp in the freezer. I'm also thinking that when my friends come over tomorrow night I just might cook chicken breast and shrimp for dinner.

 

[OUMoose]

Might I recommend stuffed pork chops... *yummy*

 

[shesulsa]

Well the big man may not like them but:

I'm still going to eat pig, shrimp, perch, catfish, lobster, crab, mussells, the dolphina, and whatever else I may like that I forgot on this list. I'm down to 2 bags of shrimp in the freezer. I'm also thinking that when my friends come over tomorrow night I just might cook chicken breast and shrimp for dinner.

Dang! :fanboy: Am I invited?

 

[Seig]

Well, if the old law was abolished, then surely Christ's exhortation to love each other as our own self would mean we should:

1) allow gay couples to marry/have civil unions
2) fund better education, Head Start, and welfare
3) support unions
4) stop supporting companies that use sweatshop labor
5) end the death penalty


...etc etc etc.

Most folks who quote the "old law" from the Old Testament want to punish or limit other folks. I think it's really funny that they should also be avoiding shellfish if they really believe the other things that get quoted and bandied about.

"The Devil can quote scripture an it serves him."
"Be less concerned by what goes into thine mouth than what comes out." - Jesus Christ

 

[Seig]

When one thinks about it the "old law" made sense considering the time that it was made. Pork and "creatures that dwell on the bottom of the seas" basically lived, ate, slept in the filth of their own (and others). I mean when a free swimming fish produced waste where does it go... to the bottom and lobsters, crabs, shellfish and shrimp (some species) lived on the bottom feeding off the bodies of dead fish and etc and likewise the organic material that settled there.
Same with pigs/swine which wallowed in thier own flith ("sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie but I wouldn't eat the filithy mother, pigs sleep and eat in their own **** that's a filthy animal" Jules from Pulp Fiction). Folks back then didn't have the cleaning technology to make these creatures healthy to eat. Actually that technology probably didn't come about til the 19th century or later. Still it was about staying healthy and eating foods that were more healthy for the Jews.

... at least that's what I heard anyway from a friend of mine who is of the Jewish persuasion while having a marvelous dinner at the Chesapeake Bay Seafood Resturant in Maryland. Yummy stuff and all you can eat. SIGH! Ah jes :inlove: :inlove:
LOOOOVVVE Seafood man!


Well I'll be for three out of those five the middle three and not the first and last one of those.

He's on the right track, just in the wrong car. Pork was not allowed due to trichonosis, a disease caused by improper curing and storage of pork.

 

[Seig]

I don't have distain for the Torah - the people I have had quoting Old Testament lines to me are evangelical Protestants who generally take a single phrase out of context and then proceed to repeat it in the face of all opposing arguments.

I have yet to meet a Jewish person who does this, at least to me. I was not referring to anyone of the Jewish faith - I apologize if that was the impression.

"I am a jealous, vengeful, wrathful God....."
-God, Old Testament

 

[Seig]

NOTE:

The only people required to eat or keep a Kosher Diet is Jewish People. Everyone else enjoy the seafood.

And whatever you do, if your grandfather is a synagogue elder, do not show up to his house at 1:30 in the afternoon during passover eating a bacon cheese burger.

 

[Seig]

Damn, god hates a lot of mutha******!!!!

Mark - I don't think anybody is trying to dis judaism. I think they are trying to point out the contradictions on the christian right regarding their position on gay marriage.

Anybody got some more things that should be banned if homosexuality makes the list?

Yeah, goyim.

 

[Seig]

Thank you, Mark! I have never read the Torah and have never found any place where I may find one - although I just realized (and very embarassingly so) that I have never looked to see if the library had one. I just noticed that I never see "Jewish Supply" stores anywhere, though I always see Christian Supply stores.

We're a closed club.

I also find it interesting that many Christians have not read the Bible as a book or series of books, but rather select passages usually pointed out by their clergy in sermon.

That is because many Christians cannot read. :roflmao:

I took it upon myself to read the Sermon on the Mount a few times and have read through the Bible once - about 20 years ago. I am due for a re-read.

All the while smacking yourself in the head; saying "I forgot about that!.........Oh ****, I'm going to hell for sure!":wah:

I have obtained a copy of the Koran, but these are the only holy writings in my possession currently. The only reason I have the Koran is that my ex-brother-in-law gave it to me.

We are now borrowing the Christian practice of the collection plate, please be generous.

Where might one purchase Jewish Holy Scripture outside of the Old Testament?

Check with any local Jewish group or synagogue.

 

[shesulsa]

Geez, Seig. Are we on a roll today or what?

Thanks for the suggestion on obtaining Jewish scripture - much appreciated.

"Be less concerned about what goes into thine mouth than what comes out." One of my fave J.C. quotes. I like!

And the bit about the bacon cheeseburger on Passover ... :roflmao: