Does aikido use punches and kicks?

[Same Trick]

Combat Sambo is another place you can find contact sparring. Like Judo even though atemi waza is a thing and a lot of judoka MMA learn it, I don't know enough about Aikido to find someone who is high level enough to show off Aikido striking (which looks a lot like Judo atemi waza.

For example, Judo has elbow strikes, and you'd rarely (not never) see them in competition, the more striker type mixed judoka learn elbow strikes as finishers to throws etc, even if they also cross train in a pure striking art.

I'm really interested in this subject because as someone with a boxing background and working on my black belt I really am exploring some other arts concepts and because of jujutsu, judo and aikido have a sort of common core.

World renown Aikido master Christian Tissier has a kickboxing background. However when one is committed to the philosophy within aikido and on the aikidotatami there’s not really room for kickboxing.
Same I think with Judo as the name suggest “soft”-way

 

[O'Malley]

Does aikido use punches and kicks?

It can happen.

What are the pros and cons of some one using aikido using punches and kicks?

The pros are that it makes you more effective, as strikes are important tools in combative situations. The cons is that sometimes you want to avoid smacking people in the face (e.g. drunk friend).

Some one said 90% should be non punches and kicks with aikido. Some even say 100% should be non punches and kicks with aikido.

So what is the right number? Or more like 60% to 70% should punches and kicks. What are the pros and cons of some one using aikido using punches and kicks? And what should right number be?

There's no right number. I know the quotes about aikido being 70 or 90% atemi but they shouldn't be taken literally, they just mean that atemi is an important part of the art.

Have you used punches and kicks to set up aikido take down?

I have, usually as a way to enter clinch range without getting smacked in the face.

However, in my mind, "atemi" are not mere punches and kicks. I understand "atemi" as "rooted strikes" where the goal is not to maximize impact but to take the opponent's space to topple him. I believe that it's common among jujutsu styles. The logic is similar to the strikes you see in sumo, which are very likely to have influenced jujutsu. One could also hypothesize that atemi comes from knife penetration:

So, to do proper atemi, you need to create a line from your striking limb to the ground, so that your strike is "solid" enough to unbalance your opponent:

Atemi in application:

That's also probably why the following techniques are called "atemi waza" in Shodokan/Tomiki aikido:

They say the punches and strikes are used to distract or unbalance the attacker making it easier for a take down.

But some schools seem to use more punches and strikes than other schools I don’t know why that the case.

Schools are different, and not everybody trains with the same goals, or knowledge.

I meant a professional competitor who primary uses/represents Aikido, in the grappling/striking sense. I figured there must be someone out there who trains it seriously and can show it full contact.

This is honestly something I tried and can't seem to find. I can find judo stuff involving strikes that are practical.

There are some aikido people that spar with strikes:

- YouTube

And I only know of one famous MMA athlete with a base in aikido (he was a Tomiki aikido champion but obviously had to acquire a full skillset to compete): - YouTube

 

[O'Malley]

The idea of Aikido is not about competition, I think the very name itself indicate that.
However the Tomiki linage have some sort of competition, the founder of that linage was heavily into judo I recall reading somewhere, I don’t know the rules and how the competition looks like though.

Edit - Although, Aikido has its randori practice usually with several attackers.
All attacks by attackers in Aikido are to be committed to hit and make contact with defender.

Aikido has had competition for decades in several major lineages. The Aikikai prohibits competition as a way to differentiate the art from other gendai budo like karate, judo, etc. (and it also publicly pressures other aikido organizations from holding tournaments because in the long run it could make them lose money).

 

[Same Trick]

Aikido has had competition for decades in several major lineages. The Aikikai prohibits competition as a way to differentiate the art from other gendai budo like karate, judo, etc. (and it also publicly pressures other aikido organizations from holding tournaments because in the long run it could make them lose money).

Which aikido linages hold competitions ? Tomiki I know does, any other of the major linages - Iwama/Saito, Tohei/KiAikido, Nishio ….?

Can you elaborate little on how Aikido competition looks ?
I recall I’ve seen something where only shomen-uchi strike is allowed as attack, both combatants goes freely at each other with this strike and then try to apply something aikido’ish

 

[O'Malley]

Which aikido linages hold competitions ? Tomiki I know does, any other of the major linages - Iwama/Saito, Tohei/KiAikido, Nishio ….?

Can you elaborate little on how Aikido competition looks ?
I recall I’ve seen something where only shomen-uchi strike is allowed as attack, both combatants goes freely at each other with this strike and then try to apply something aikido’ish

Sure.

Ki aikido has a set of partner kata called "taigi", which they have held competitions for (no idea how it's scored): Quick report of 4th International Ki-Aikido Taigi competition

Yoshinkan also has kata-based competition:

Shodokan (Tomiki) has competition with and without a rubber tanto, as you know.

And without going as far as holding a formal competition circuit, a lot of dojos also have their own homebrew sparring rulesets:

This one looks fun as hell, and looks like an interesting experiment to learn how to throw people while protecting your head:

 

[Same Trick]

Sure.

Ki aikido has a set of partner kata called "taigi", which they have held competitions for (no idea how it's scored): Quick report of 4th International Ki-Aikido Taigi competition

Yoshinkan also has kata-based competition:

Shodokan (Tomiki) has competition with and without a rubber tanto, as you know.

And without going as far as holding a formal competition circuit, a lot of dojos also have their own homebrew sparring rulesets:

This one looks fun as hell, and looks like an interesting experiment to learn how to throw people while protecting your head:

Nice! Yes, I thought if there’s aikido competition it Would probably be in kata format or more freely interpreted as randori still with decided attacker and defender.

 

[O'Malley]

Actually, although Morihei Ueshiba was opposed to aikido sports competitions (like the founders of karate and judo, which eventually became heavily competitive arts), he was not at all opposed to competitive practice: he and his students would often spar or play sumo after every training session. The students would play judo as well but he'd get angry because he didn't want them to practice an art that had (remote) origins in "filthy" China.

 

[Sammy Naur]

World renown Aikido master Christian Tissier has a kickboxing background. However when one is committed to the philosophy within aikido and on the aikidotatami there’s not really room for kickboxing.
Same I think with Judo as the name suggest “soft”-way

I understand you, but judo is an Olympic sport, and it's clearly not "soft". Aikido is still a sort of "red headed stepchild"

I have to be honest there is plenty of ""striking" in Judo, but not striking, and that's where I think Aikido probably sits.

I think both arts have this reputation for this sort of "accept the attacker" flow but I think it's superficial. In reality you're going to strike each other, pummel, while you figure out what to attempt.

 

[Same Trick]

I understand you, but judo is an Olympic sport, and it's clearly not "soft". Aikido is still a sort of "red headed stepchild"

I have to be honest there is plenty of ""striking" in Judo, but not striking, and that's where I think Aikido probably sits.

I think both arts have this reputation for this sort of "accept the attacker" flow but I think it's superficial. In reality you're going to strike each other, pummel, while you figure out what to attempt.

I read somewhere some time ago that when Kano witnessed Ueshiba’s Aikido Kano said that’s how he wished judo to look like ….
And yesterday I read that Kano supposedly studied something kalled Kito-ryu, which name I loosely interpret have some resemblance meaning to “Aiki”.
Yoshin- ryu(th was another Ryuha Kano supposedly studied before forming his Judo

 

[Same Trick]

I understand you, but judo is an Olympic sport, and it's clearly not "soft". Aikido is still a sort of "red headed stepchild"

I have to be honest there is plenty of ""striking" in Judo, but not striking, and that's where I think Aikido probably sits.

I think both arts have this reputation for this sort of "accept the attacker" flow but I think it's superficial. In reality you're going to strike each other, pummel, while you figure out what to attempt.

It’s known that Kano and Funakoshi were friends and exchanged knowledge. Interestingly is that Ueshiba kind of dismissed karate as something useless

 

[O'Malley]

I read somewhere some time ago that when Kano witnessed Ueshiba’s Aikido Kano said that’s how he wished judo to look like ….

Ellis Amdur wrote about that incident (Kano reportedly said "this is ideal judo!"). According to him, it's just a way to express admiration for another martial artist by comparing it to his own beloved art, not a way to say "I wish judo looked like this".

And yesterday I read that Kano supposedly studied something kalled Kito-ryu, which name I loosely interpret have some resemblance meaning to “Aiki”.
Yoshin- ryu(th was another Ryuha Kano supposedly studied before forming his Judo

Kano mainly studied Kito-ryu and Tenjin Shin'yo-ryu. The latter is a mix of Yoshin-ryu (one of the most ancient and influential jujutsu schools) and another style called Shin-no-Shinto-ryu.

What do you mean by Kito-ryu's name having a resemblance to "aiki"?

 

[Same Trick]

What do you mean by Kito-ryu's name having a resemblance to "aiki"?

I’m just superficially guessing and googling on that, what comes up was that “Kito” refers to something as - up/down and the ableness to smoothly understand the interaction of the two “forces/energies”??

Aiki- joining force/energy

Anyway, supposedly a common concept in all jujutsu

Further checking the internet, it seems that Ueshiba early on also studied Kito-ryu to some extent.

 

[Sammy Naur]

read somewhere some time ago that when Kano witnessed Ueshiba’s Aikido Kano said that’s how he wished judo to look like ….

I would love to see that source. Obviously it wasn't Aikido yet, but I can understand Kano's desire for Judo to be so graceful. In reality it's not, until it is.

 

[drop bear]

I meant a professional competitor who primary uses/represents Aikido, in the grappling/striking sense. I figured there must be someone out there who trains it seriously and can show it full contact.

This is honestly something I tried and can't seem to find. I can find judo stuff involving strikes that are practical.

There are some bigger guys who make it work against resistance.

There are some competitive guys who make some of the concepts work.

And some of the Jitsu adjacent to Aikido train aliveish sort of.

 

[Sammy Naur]

There are some bigger guys who make it work against resistance.

There are some competitive guys who make some of the concepts work.

And some of the Jitsu adjacent to Aikido train aliveish sort of.

Without trying to be annoying, who?

I'm really not trying to be harsh but just like in the other thread, Steven Seagal is still considered by many to be the scion of Aikido, an honor he definitely doesn't deserve.

I am really hoping to discover an Aikidoka who is both alive, and training alive. They have to exist, they might be unicorns but that's ok.

 

[drop bear]

Without trying to be annoying, who?

I'm really not trying to be harsh but just like in the other thread, Steven Seagal is still considered by many to be the scion of Aikido, an honor he definitely doesn't deserve.

I am really hoping to discover an Aikidoka who is both alive, and training alive. They have to exist, they might be unicorns but that's ok.

Daito ryu do a bit of live stuff.

Dan the wolfman was around for a bit waving the flag.

 

[Same Trick]

I would love to see that source. Obviously it wasn't Aikido yet, but I can understand Kano's desire for Judo to be so graceful. In reality it's not, until it is.

It’s supposedly said that Donn Draeger had a major impact on the development of Judo in Japan by introducing weight lifting, it could be from that we today see a more muscle bound judo

 

[Sammy Naur]

supposedly said that Donn Draeger had a major impact on the development of Judo in Japan by introducing weight lifting, it could be from that we today see a more muscle boun

That's ridiculous.

Donn Draeger is not a reliable source.

He introduced weight lifitng to Japan?? Surely you must be pulling my leg. I hope so.

 

[Same Trick]

That's ridiculous.

Donn Draeger is not a reliable source.

He introduced weight lifitng to Japan?? Surely you must be pulling my leg. I hope so.

It’s not my statement, just putting forward what I read somewhere some time ago, I remember the source seemed reliable- was it an article on Koryu. com ? I don’t remember…..And i wrote that he introduced (serious/modern?) weight lifting to judo in Japan

How come Donn Dreager’s not a reliable source ?