Do you understand these text?

[Kung Fu Wang]

Have you ever read some text that you understand each and every words. But you just have no idea what the whole text is trying to say?

Do you understand the following text?

THE FOUR-WORD SECRET FORMULA (by Wu Yuxiang)

1. SPREAD: Spreading means moving energy in your own body to spread over the opponent’s power, making him unable to move.

2. COVER: Covering means using energy to cover the area the opponent attacks.

3. MATCH: Matching means using energy to match the opponent’s attack, knowing for certain where his target is and sending him away from it.

4. ENGULF: Engulfing means using energy to completely absorb the opponent’s attack and neutralize it.

These four words are about something invisible and silent, and if you are not yet identifying energies and have practiced to a point of extreme refinement, you will not be able to understand them. They are entirely about energy. If you can nurture energy with integrity, it will not be corrupted, and you will begin to be able to send it into your limbs, and then your limbs will instinctively know what to do.

 

[drop bear]

I tend to move away from inscrutable these days. It just seems very self indulgent.

And no. No idea what he is on about.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

No idea what he is on about.

Glad to know that I'm not the only one who feels this way.

I didn't know that MA can be this abstract.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I don't know the context in which this says. For the most part trying to explain it without knowing the context will just make me sound stupid and ignorant. So here goes. A full plate of ignorance with a glass of stupid. lol

SPREAD - When I see this, I'm thinking to over power someone. If I'm over powering someone then I'm just landing tons of combos and attacking at various locations on my opponent. Usually when this happens, people will shell up because they don't know where the next punch is going to come from. We often see this in boxing.


COVER - When I see this I'm thinking to literally cover. Like someone throws a punch to your head and you cover.


MATCH - I have no clue about this one. Other than only applying the energy that is needed to defend the area of where a person is attacking. Muay Thai leg kicks vs leg checks. How much energy is used to in the leg check. It matches what is coming towards it and send it away. It doesn't advance and it doesn't protect against all types of kicks. Just enough to deal with certain leg kicks. No more no less.


ENGULF - This sounds like what I do when I'm jamming kicks and punches. I'm smothering punches before they become powerful. It's like putting out a flame on a match before it becomes a huge fire. A lot of times this means absorbing a strike before it becomes a full powered strike. Because I smother it at the weakest point, I can afford to just absorb the strike without trying to defend against it. Like I often say. "I will take a lesser hit if I know I and give a stronger one in return."

Translation of Energy for me would be action or the energy that you put in that action. When I speak of energy, this is how I think of it. I don't think of anything on the spiritual side of things when I think Martial Arts and fighting. Spiritual stuff is for self-development of ones mental state. Where the mind is, the body will soon follow.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I read some translations of what other people stated this stuff means and it didn't make sense for me. Like one site states you use Engulf "When an opponent releases the force and the force is or almost reached its peak,"

To me if my opponent get to full strength in the strike, then I either want to cover or just get out the way. It makes no sense to engulf something at full strength.

 

[Holmejr]

I think it means that you get your butt kicked in a real fight while walking through a parking lot in downtown Los Angles. Although I might be mistaken…

 

[JowGaWolf]

My personal thoughts on some of this stuff is this.
If a fighter made the statement, then the reader must have fighting experience to understand it.

There are a few poems in Jow Ga that I think are misunderstood.
"“You must first be a good person, then a good martial artist.”

To me this means you must first be a good person, before martial arts and not because of martial arts. Martial arts will not make you a good person. There are lots of people who are Martial Artists and Big Jerks at that same time.

But this is how one school explains the poem.
"It makes clear that Kung Fu is more than merely a physical discipline. It is a treasured art form that embodies moral principles, with roots dating back to the Shaolin Temple."

To me this is over thinking. If I'm a good person first then I will be a good person who does martial arts (good martial artist) If I'm a bad person first then I will be a bad person who does martial arts (bad martial artist) Good guy vs Bad guy. Kung Fu has nothing to do with it, which is why you have to be good person first before Kung Fu

Often times you here people say, You have to take Kung Fu so you can be a good person. I think that's backwards and not realistic. Maybe it's just me.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I think it means that you get your butt kicked in a real fight while walking through a parking lot in downtown Los Angles. Although I might be mistaken…

I thought the same thing when I read some of the explanations of it. One said "Imagine your Qi is larger than your opponents" and I said to myself. yep you are bout to get stomped imaging you are bigger than what you are lol.

 

[letsplaygames]

Sounds like subcategory of S.W.A.G

Scientific Wild AZZ Guessing

 

[geezer]

I like simple martial proverbs that I can understand, like:

Rah rah ree...
Kick 'em in the knee!

Rah rah rass...
Kick 'em in the other knee!

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I like simple martial proverbs that I can understand, like:

Rah rah ree...
Kick 'em in the knee!

Rah rah rass...
Kick 'em in the other knee!

One of my friends wanted me to meet with her Taiji teacher. After she had told me that when her Taiji teacher did his Taiji form, his soul could leave his body, floated above his head, and looked down at his own physical body, I lost interest to meet with her Taiji teacher.

Later on she told me that her soul could leave her body, and travel through galaxy, I lost interest to meet her after that.

 

[JowGaWolf]

One of my friends wanted me to meet with her Taiji teacher. After she had told me that when her Taiji teacher did his Taiji form, his soul could leave his body, floated above his head, and looked down at his own physical body, I lost interest to meet with her Taiji teacher.

Later on she told me that her soul could leave her body, and travel through galaxy, I lost interest to meet her after that.

They say that's the ultimate ability for Taiji. I'm not sure why, that seems to conflict with the fighting focus of Taiji. There are no kind techniques. I know what they are talking about when they say "soul could leave his body." That's spiritual stuff and there's other ways and better ways to learn that type of stuff instead of doing Taiji.

I'm not sure why people treat Chinese martial arts like meditation. There's too many groin strikes and eye pokes in Chinese martial arts to think that it's about leaving the body and stuff.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

They say that's the ultimate ability for Taiji.

I don't know why this kind of mystery thing only happen in the Taiji system.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I don't know why this kind of mystery thing only happen in the Taiji system.

beats me. At some point in the past, it became more important o know many forms than it di to know how to used the techniques in the forms.

 

[Sifu Ken of 8 Tigers]

Each of these makes sense to me, mostly from an "internal" martial persepctive, but only if you look at the description and ignore the poor choice of lables.

SPREAD - this is like Tai Chi "push" energy, which should be called "press" IMO, as it means to make the opponent feel heavy, rooting your "weight" through THEIR feet.

COVER - I believe this is being mindful of "zones" similar to quadrants used in some Wing Chun and Jeet Kune Do.

MATCH - Not to be confused with "force against force", this means matching force but not opposing it but rather guiding and therefore controlling it.

ENGULF - absorption merely means internally redirecting it, usually into one's root.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Have you ever read some text that you understand each and every words. But you just have no idea what the whole text is trying to say?

Do you understand the following text?

THE FOUR-WORD SECRET FORMULA (by Wu Yuxiang)

Yes, I do. This English translation is bad. I'll try to find some time to make a better one.

Most likely Master Wu was just contemplating his life of fighting over rice wine one night.

Steffan de Graffenried probably just muddied things up. He is from Alabama after all. Maybe I can do better.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Made some progress. First and foremost, I still think Wang's translation is from this dude ("I wear my sun glasses at night..."). The guy appears 100% legitimate (and quite limber for a man his age, kudos).

Steffan de Graffenried – Studio108

studio108yogacenter.com

He's got some videos, like this one where he demos some stuff with the Dread Pirate Roberts stunt double. Granted it's just a demo but the basics of Tai Chi (rootedness, relaxation, loosey goosedness) are all present. Whether he spars/competes beyond this I really have no idea, so going to follow my usual rule of not commenting on his potential combat readiness (I find that sort of thing unfair).

 

[Oily Dragon]

That said, let's start small with the translation, because tying the 4 hanzi to Tai Chi neigong is a lot easier than a pagefull. Tai Chi is supposed to be simple, right?

I'm almost sure the source of the material is probably contained in the famous 鹽店譜 (Salt Shop Manual), one of the Tai Chi classics, the alleged source of Neijia/internal instruction in the Wu (Hao) style that Master Wu (also a disciple of Yang and Chen) used to form the basis of his personal quan fa theories.

Whoever came up with these words (this man or someone else), they appear to have used the Wiktionary to translate the terms, but chose for whatever reason the first available definition. That's generally a bad idea when translating hanzi, because most hanzi have multiple definitions sometimes synonymous, sometimes totally different or metaphorical (which is the worst because without context, it will make no sense).

Likewise, all four of these translations sound the same which is probably why they're confusing. Sticking to Cantonese for these.

1. SPREAD: Spreading means moving energy in your own body to spread over the opponent’s power, making him unable to move.

敷 - Fu means spread as in apply diffusely, and in the context of Tai Chi it probably should be taken literally. It's the Tai Chi way of stealing into the opponents space and using body mechanics to strike, throw, etc. And it is kind of hard to move when someone has wrapped themselves around your body.

2. COVER: Covering means using energy to cover the area the opponent attacks.

蓋 - Goi. This one is problematic, again Wiktionary has 16 definitions and this is just the first. Alternatives are "conceal", close off, like the shell of a turtle or shellfish. For Tai Chi Chuan, I think this one is obvious (protect yourself at all times).

3. MATCH: Matching means using energy to match the opponent’s attack, knowing for certain where his target is and sending him away from it.

對 - Deoi. Eek. 18 possible definitions, but without context...however this one I happen to know well from reading Chinese military books. In martial context this means to match up opposing forces correctly, as in "Dao deoi dao, qiang deoi qiang" (sword vs. sword, spear vs. spear).

So this one actually has implications for jian technique, I think. I don't think it's a coincidence, since deoi is a common military term (especially given Wu's family pedigree).

For body and hand techniques, same thing. Basic push hands is probably a good example of how this works in training.

4. ENGULF: Engulfing means using energy to completely absorb the opponent’s attack and neutralize it.

吞 - This is an easy one, Tan means "Swallow" and is found is many other martial arts and I'm going to guess 攤手 (Tan Sao in Wing Chun, Hung Ga, etc) is a homonym to this Tan, since "receiving/swallowing" concept is found in those, as well as Tai Chi. Dragon style wins again!

 

[Oily Dragon]

And just like that I found another translation on this hombre's site. Notice how his article used "blanketing" for goi and "interception" for deoi. And yet some of the English is exactly the same as above, e.g. "so that he cannot move". Still makes sense, but simpler and more precise.

I actually think these versions are much better translations, probably because this dude is an actual Chan monk living in Pittsburgh, so his ability to read Chinese through the lens of Tai Chi Chuan is a hell of a lot better than mine.

Dr. David Clippinger - Still Mountain T'ai Chi & Chi Kung

www.stillmountaintaichi.com

Fu: Covering
Move Qi throughout your body; use it to cover your opponent’s force so that he cannot move

Gai: Blanketing
Use your Qi to directly cover the opponent’s incoming force

Dui: Interception
Direct your Qi to where the opponent’s forces are coming from, target it precisely, then release

Tun: Swallowing
Use Qi to swallow the force of the opponent whole and dissolve it

 

[Flying Crane]

One of my friends wanted me to meet with her Taiji teacher. After she had told me that when her Taiji teacher did his Taiji form, his soul could leave his body, floated above his head, and looked down at his own physical body, I lost interest to meet with her Taiji teacher.

Later on she told me that her soul could leave her body, and travel through galaxy, I lost interest to meet her after that.

I guess she died?