Do you think its to dangerous drinking in different countries other than the USA?

[Gerry Seymour]

no you used to term poison, and have given a list of things that are not poison. arguing that water us poison as it very occasionally leads to death, is much the same as arguing that sharks are poison as they very occasionally kill people and nether are poison at all, though potentially harmful if your terminally stupid or at least with sharks extremely unlucky

ironically, an excess of water can be harmful as it removes poison from your body, most notably sodium, so it's it's anti poison properties that make it harmful

You're going to blame someone else for using the word you brought up?

 

[jobo]

You're going to blame someone else for using the word you brought up?

im not blaming him for anything, I'm teasing him for not knowing that water isn't poisonous, I'm sure his isn't to blame for that, possibly the school system, but then it probably should have occurred to him humans are largely made up of water, so maybe he is to blame?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I was avoiding posting here after my initial post, but wanted to add one thing. Driniing alcohol to the point that its deadly is called alcohol poisoning. In laymans terms, theres too much alcohol in your body for your body to be able to process/handle.

Doing the same with water is called overhydration, or water intoxication, and really just means that you diluted your sodium too much with water, not an issue of the water itself. AFAIK no one refers to it as water poisoning

Take from that what you will.

 

[dvcochran]

There are a couple dives there that should be "bucket list" items for any diver.
One is the Manta Ray dive. It's at night. You dangle off a line at 70-80 feet and shine lights up. That attracts plankton, which attracts Manta Rays.
The other is the back wall at Molokini. It's another deep water dive, but there's a good chance of seeing schools of Hammerheads. It's an advanced dive, however, because the seas tend to be very rough, which makes getting in the boat a challenge, and because the currents tend to be very fast.
Other than those two, Hawaii is good, but not great.
Above water, it's one of the most spectacular and amazing places in the world.

We have done a couple of Ray dives in Exuma. One of the things a person has to experience to appreciate. Fantastic variety of rays of various species and all sizes swam with us for a good bit both times. We have done several chum bucket shark dives. I believe hammers head shown each time but can't remember for sure. Beautiful animals. Way more standoffish vs. the nurse sharks and even the tiger sharks. I hoped to get a chance to dive anywhere while we were in San Antonio but did not. I am getting the fever pretty bad.
**** I know you post is Hawaii centric but diving caught my attention.

 

[Chrisinmd]

there's no safe limit for alcohol, every mouthful does you harm, if it's very low doses it can take many years before the issues become notable to you, but very low doses are not the societal norm. there no point doing it at all unless you get at least mildy intoxicantated .its a mood enhancer after all, if the dose you take doesn't enhance your mood you may as well drink water, if it does it has caused you irreparable harm.

So if it is a horrible poison as you say why do people in Europe who drink more then we do in the United States live longer? Better diet probably part of it but then that means I can simply cancel out any negative effects with a good diet

 

[jobo]

there a lot more things that can kill you than alcohol.
but, Moldova, drinks far more than the USA and has a far lower life expectancy, the czech republic drinks slightly more than the USA and has a slightly lower life expectancy, so clearly you don't mean Europe rather a few counties in Europe, the difference is more likely caused by the provision of mostly free health and social care in most European countries people just don't die ofbeing to poor pay medical care bills i most of europe

the issue of course isn't just life expectancy its quality of life during that expectancy, very few heavy drinker can be considered healthy, only really the younger end where it hasn't taken effect yet,

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

So if it is a horrible poison as you say why do people in Europe who drink more then we do in the United States live longer? Better diet probably part of it but then that means I can simply cancel out any negative effects with a good diet

Thats horrible logic. First, just because a country does one thing more than another doesn't mean that is the cause of their life expectancy. That would be like saying the reason for the difference is the popuparity of ketchup.

For fun, i decided to compare drinking per capita and life expectancy. Life expectancy =LE, drinks per capita =DC

#1 for Le was Japan, they're #71 on DC

#2 for LE was Switzerland, they're #34 DC

#3 for LE was Singapore, they're #152 DC

#1 for DC was Belarus, they're #98 LE

#2 for DC was Moldova, they're #99 LE

#3 for DC was lithuania, they're #103 LE.

Not really seeing the relationship there.

 

[Chrisinmd]

there a lot more things that can kill you than alcohol.
but, Moldova, drinks far more than the USA and has a far lower life expectancy, the czech republic drinks slightly more than the USA and has a slightly lower life expectancy, so clearly you don't mean Europe rather a few counties in Europe, the difference is more likely caused by the provision of mostly free health and social care in most European countries people just don't die ofbeing to poor pay medical care bills i most of europe

the issue of course isn't just life expectancy its quality of life during that expectancy, very few heavy drinker can be considered healthy, only really the younger end where it hasn't taken effect yet,

I didn't mean all of Europe as a whole. I wasant thinking of Russia where the men chug Vodka all day. I was thinking more of Italy and France. But I guess the higher life expectancy may come to the type of alcohol they drink as well. More wine as opposed to other types of alcohol.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I didn't mean all of Europe as a whole. I wasn't thinking of Russia where the men chug Vodka all day. I was thinking more of Italy and France. But I guess the higher life expectancy may come to the type of alcohol they drink as well. More wine as opposed to other types of alcohol.

If you ignore the higher drinking countries to prove that more drinking=better life expectancy, that is horrible science.

For what it's worth, while france is fairly high up there at # 18 for drinks per capita, italy is lower than the US (#48), at #87 in the rankings.

 

[jobo]

I didn't mean all of Europe as a whole. I wasant thinking of Russia where the men chug Vodka all day. I was thinking more of Italy and France. But I guess the higher life expectancy may come to the type of alcohol they drink as well. More wine as opposed to other types of alcohol.

you letting your .American geography get in the way, Russia isn't in Europe, at least not very much of it, moldova and the czech re public both ar completely

there only one type of alcohol that is drunk, just in different types of drink, there's a think that some of the other things in wines, particularly red wine have a health benifit, but it would be even healthier if they left the alcohol out or just eat the grapes

 

[jobo]

I didn't mean all of Europe as a whole. I wasant thinking of Russia where the men chug Vodka all day. I was thinking more of Italy and France. But I guess the higher life expectancy may come to the type of alcohol they drink as well. More wine as opposed to other types of alcohol.

edit

 

[JR 137]

Alcohol (ethanol that is in beverages) dissolves lipids, and also dissolves arterial plaque. Drinking alcohol in moderation can act as a cleanser for your circulatory system. That hasn’t been outright proven, but it’s pretty logical.

So alcohol is good for you.

Binge drinking has the opposite effect - hardening and narrowing the arteries.

So alcohol is bad for you.

This link provides information from a study of alcohol dosage in mice and it’s effect on the arteries. Interestingly, 2 drinks a day (14 per week) was good for them, but 7 dink’s a day for 2 days a week (14 drinks) was bad for them. Pace yourself

Study Links Drinking Pattern to Alcohol’s Effect on Heart Health

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Alcohol (ethanol that is in beverages) dissolves lipids, and also dissolves arterial plaque. Drinking alcohol in moderation can act as a cleanser for your circulatory system. That hasn’t been outright proven, but it’s pretty logical.

So alcohol is good for you.

Binge drinking has the opposite effect - hardening and narrowing the arteries.

So alcohol is bad for you.

This link provides information from a study of alcohol dosage in mice and it’s effect on the arteries. Interestingly, 2 drinks a day (14 per week) was good for them, but 7 dink’s a day for 2 days a week (14 drinks) was bad for them. Pace yourself

Study Links Drinking Pattern to Alcohol’s Effect on Heart Health

There have been some recent studies (last 2 years-ish) that have been suggesting any amount of alcohol is bad for you. I haven't looked as much into it as I probably should, as IMO even if it is bad for you it's probably not killing you to have a few drinks a week. Also, my tendency with these sorts of issues where studies contradict each other with health, is that both studies were probably biased in some way, in their initial design, or random chance is more of a factor than the actual variable in question.

For your reading pleasure: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(18)31310-2/fulltext

 

[jobo]

Alcohol (ethanol that is in beverages) dissolves lipids, and also dissolves arterial plaque. Drinking alcohol in moderation can act as a cleanser for your circulatory system. That hasn’t been outright proven, but it’s pretty logical.

So alcohol is good for you.

Binge drinking has the opposite effect - hardening and narrowing the arteries.

So alcohol is bad for you.

This link provides information from a study of alcohol dosage in mice and it’s effect on the arteries. Interestingly, 2 drinks a day (14 per week) was good for them, but 7 dink’s a day for 2 days a week (14 drinks) was bad for them. Pace yourself

Study Links Drinking Pattern to Alcohol’s Effect on Heart Health

well here an comprehensive study that says any amount of alcohol is ad for you, but more is worse
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(18)31310-2/fulltext

 

[jobo]

There have been some recent studies (last 2 years-ish) that have been suggesting any amount of alcohol is bad for you. I haven't looked as much into it as I probably should, as IMO even if it is bad for you it's probably not killing you to have a few drinks a week. Also, my tendency with these sorts of issues where studies contradict each other with health, is that both studies were probably biased in some way, in their initial design, or random chance is more of a factor than the actual variable in question.

For your reading pleasure: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(18)31310-2/fulltext

you beats me, one is indeed biased; towards mice and one biased towards humans, got a feeling we should ignore the mice one

 

[JR 137]

you beats me, one is indeed biased; towards mice and one biased towards humans, got a feeling we should ignore the mice one

The mice study has a distinct advantage: it’s far more controlled and therefore less variation. They could all be fed the same diet, same amount of exercise, same age, etc. Hell, they could all be clones.

But it’s got a definite disadvantage: they’re mice, not humans.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

..

 

[Gerry Seymour]

There have been some recent studies (last 2 years-ish) that have been suggesting any amount of alcohol is bad for you. I haven't looked as much into it as I probably should, as IMO even if it is bad for you it's probably not killing you to have a few drinks a week. Also, my tendency with these sorts of issues where studies contradict each other with health, is that both studies were probably biased in some way, in their initial design, or random chance is more of a factor than the actual variable in question.

For your reading pleasure: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(18)31310-2/fulltext

As with many things, it seems to depend what you look at in the study. It appears almost any amount of alcohol increases cancer risk marginally. But there are beneficial effects found in other studies. I'm hoping soon someone will do a meta-study, to pull all this data together.

 

[jobo]

As with many things, it seems to depend what you look at in the study. It appears almost any amount of alcohol increases cancer risk marginally. But there are beneficial effects found in other studies. I'm hoping soon someone will do a meta-study, to pull all this data together.

that's what he and I have posted above , a 592 studies meta data study,

 

[Gerry Seymour]

that's what he and I have posted above , a 592 studies meta data study,

That study doesn't actually restrict to the direct effect of alcohol, though. The top 3 attributed causes are self-harm, tuberculosis, and vehicle injury. Of those, the tuberculosis is the only one we could reasonably attribute to a poisonous effect (direct effect on the body over time), rather than on cognitive and emotional impairment. I'd have to dig deeper into the text to see if they had enough information to suss out the direct bodily effect on LE.